/his/ - History & Humanities » Thread #11729125

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Anonymous Fri 13 Aug 2021 20:11:44 No.11729125 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>11729173 >>11729204 >>11729239 >>11729741 >>11729796 >>11730764 >>11730819 >>11730923 >>11731126 >>11731382 >>11733653 >>11734932 >>11735037 >>11735095 >>11735212 >>11737391

What would it take for CSA to win the war?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 13 Aug 2021 20:15:55 No.11729158 Report

Quoted By: >>11735517

Border South would have had to secede and be pro-Confederacy instead of being pro-Union.
The Confederates lost the moment Kentucky and Maryland didn’t swing hard to their side, and the countdown clock to failure started the moment Grant and Halleck walked into Kentucky as the liberators-to-be

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 13 Aug 2021 20:18:00 No.11729173 Report

Quoted By: >>11729192 >>11729212 >>11729954 >>11730281 >>11730390 >>11733598

>>11729125
A more defensive tactics

Temporary unification of the CSA until the war is one

Making treatise with foreign powers

Simple.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 13 Aug 2021 20:19:58 No.11729192 Report

Quoted By: >>11730290

>>11729173
>Making treatise with foreign powers
Would require dropping slavery, a moot point

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 13 Aug 2021 20:21:21 No.11729204 Report

Quoted By: >>11729219

>>11729125
rallying the natives, marching on Washington, holding out long enough foreign powers can not ignore you.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 13 Aug 2021 20:22:34 No.11729212 Report

Quoted By: >>11729234

>>11729173
>Making treatise with foreign powers
You’re assuming any foreign powers wanted anything to do with them. Even when Britain offered to negotiate Texas’s freedom from Mexico they made ending slavery their biggest stipulation

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 13 Aug 2021 20:23:40 No.11729219 Report

Quoted By:

>>11729204
They could after the emancipation declaration

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 13 Aug 2021 20:26:04 No.11729234 Report

Quoted By: >>11729249 >>11729280 >>11730032 >>11730945 >>11737309

>>11729212
both britain and france wanted their cotton, bigtime, and couldn't get it because of the blockade

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 13 Aug 2021 20:26:48 No.11729239 Report

Quoted By:

>>11729125
order 191 not getting lost
lee would crush the army of the potomac and take pittsburgh, leading to france and britain recognising them

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 13 Aug 2021 20:28:39 No.11729249 Report

Quoted By: >>11729256

>>11729234
I’m sorry but king cotton was a sham

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 13 Aug 2021 20:29:51 No.11729256 Report

Quoted By: >>11729551

>>11729249
le scheming pajeet

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 13 Aug 2021 20:33:27 No.11729280 Report

Quoted By:

>>11729234
>muh cotton meme
Anon, I…

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 13 Aug 2021 21:02:10 No.11729440 Report

Quoted By: >>11729529 >>11729734

It's borderline impossible for it to end with the South overrunning the Northern cities like IRL. Maybe they get Washington for a while if they're lucky and that definitely hurts Northern Morale. Basically the best approach is Fabian, maneuver around and fight battles of opportunity on your terms, avoid the risk of giving Lincoln cover to emancipate and destroy your chances of foreign recognition, and ratchet up war weariness until you can sue for peace.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 13 Aug 2021 21:16:05 No.11729529 Report

Quoted By:

>>11729440
>avoid the risk of giving Lincoln cover to emancipate and destroy your chances of foreign recognition
how?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 13 Aug 2021 21:20:48 No.11729551 Report

Quoted By:

>>11729256
kek

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 13 Aug 2021 21:27:04 No.11729589 Report

Quoted By: >>11729734 >>11730800 >>11730811

What did this guy actually do that was so great?
Why was he trying to invade Pennsylvania rather than just drawing the Union army into the easily defensible Appalachians?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 13 Aug 2021 21:54:36 No.11729734 Report

Quoted By: >>11730811

>>11729440
Southern economy, unity, and morale collapses long before the North gives a shit unless the South makes solid gains. They'll have to fight at some point, better to maximize their potential early on rather than give the Union a chance to use their superior resources to their fullest potential.
>>11729589
>Why was he trying to invade Pennsylvania rather than just drawing the Union army into the easily defensible Appalachians?
Napoleon syndrome. He was high on a string of good victories and thought that if only he could get the next one the war would be over. In the end, trying for a decisive peace lost him everything he was fighting for. The absolute retardation of decisions like Pickett's charge makes me believe he thought he was unbeatable.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 13 Aug 2021 21:55:47 No.11729741 Report

Quoted By:

>>11729125
T

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 13 Aug 2021 21:56:49 No.11729749 Report

Quoted By:

Civil war was fake.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 13 Aug 2021 22:03:13 No.11729796 Report

Quoted By:

>>11729125
A general in the west who can succesfully prevent the union from splitting the confederacy in half,union loss at shiloh to get Grant fired and out of the way and make the south/lee understand that they are never gonna take washington and that the best hope that they got is to bleed the union white and to engage them in as few major battles as possible.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 13 Aug 2021 22:25:36 No.11729954 Report

Quoted By: >>11730344

>>11729173
Foreign powers wouldn't have supported the csa due to slavery and its bad image.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 13 Aug 2021 22:36:38 No.11730032 Report

Quoted By:

>>11729234
Britain and France were interested in the CSA but more in the sense of it keeping the US weak but even they weren't going to back a country wanting slavery protected in their constitution and groups talking about expanding their slave empire.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 13 Aug 2021 23:19:09 No.11730281 Report

Quoted By: >>11730423

>>11729173
>Making treatise with foreign powers
they tried
>A more defensive tactics
great, give the union even more time to comfortably steamroll

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 13 Aug 2021 23:21:51 No.11730290 Report

Quoted By:

>>11729192
>moot
Who?

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 13 Aug 2021 23:30:45 No.11730344 Report

Quoted By: >>11731710

>>11729954
Slavery was also legal in the USA during the civil war, it wasn't until it was over that the 13th amendment fully abolished slavery in all states and territories. Kentucky, Missouri and Maryland were all slave states and fought for the Union, as well as pro-Union slaveholding native tribes.
It's a modern day meme that the CSA was the slaver side, every side was the slaver side.

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 13 Aug 2021 23:39:08 No.11730390 Report

Quoted By:

>>11729173
>Temporary unification of the CSA until the war is one
Kek

Anonymous

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Anonymous Fri 13 Aug 2021 23:44:33 No.11730423 Report

Quoted By: >>11730615 >>11730699 >>11730764 >>11730829 >>11736404

>>11730281
Bro the South is a dank pit of swamps and mountains, there could not be a more perfect country for guerrilla warfare. Hundreds of thousands of Yankees already died from disease trying to conquer it, far, far more than the Confederates actually killed. If the South had better generals and fewer inbred gloryhounds they could have absolutely spanked the US army.

Wars have been won by smaller armies against greater opposition with less favourable terrain. I really don't get the argument that the South was destined to fail no matter what.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 00:04:55 No.11730552 Report

Quoted By:

The only way the south could've won is by breaking the north's will to fight which they got close to doing a few times but thinks like Gettysburg and Vicksburg kept up the north's morale to push through.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 00:14:46 No.11730615 Report

Quoted By: >>11730682

>>11730423
>he thinks the South could have actually won a war of attrition
peak /his/tard

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 00:24:29 No.11730682 Report

Quoted By: >>11730699 >>11730708 >>11730802

>>11730615
How am I wrong tho?
Manpower was much more precious for the South than for the Union, they couldn't afford aggressive offensives like Gettysburg because any losses at all would hurt them 10x more than whatever they could manage to inflict on the union. But by playing it defensively and letting the Union try to advance they could let disease do all the work for them while choosing their battles carefully and expending as few men and resources as possible. I don't see why that wouldn't have been a much better strategy than what Lee did historically.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 00:27:08 No.11730699 Report

Quoted By: >>11730717

>>11730423
>>11730682
>he doesn't know that the KKK got absolutely crushed by the occupation force before the Supreme Court cucked everything
>he doesn't know that the Union just saturated every square mile with troops until guerilla warfare became impossible

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 00:29:32 No.11730708 Report

Quoted By: >>11730733

>>11730682

>Southern Troops hide in the swamps
>Northern Troops walk in to every plantation and frees every slave, captures important strategic locations and resources

ok

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 00:31:19 No.11730716 Report

Quoted By: >>11732071

They could've researched the machine gun and aeroplane, maybe make the first fighters and bombers. Jet technology couldn't have been too far away after that.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 00:31:29 No.11730717 Report

Quoted By:

>>11730699
That's after the war was over, the KKK isn't the Confederate army.
At peak the Union only outnumbered the Confederates 2:1, those are far from unwinnable odds.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 00:33:59 No.11730733 Report

Quoted By: >>11730801

>>11730708
Plantations which to get to they need to cross these. Perfect place for a defending battle.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 00:38:06 No.11730764 Report

Quoted By:

>>11729125
They could have probably kept winning elections and gotten their way a bunch, effectively achieving what they wanted.
Like before the war started the doughface strategy was to just let the south do whatever the fuck they wanted, and only a small faction of the republicans were actually willing and able to truly confront the slave states on their domestic issues, they could have kept slavery inside the union longer than they could have kept it ouside it.
They just wanted more slaves states.
>>11730423
Southeners did carry out a lot of guerilla violence during reconstruction. But they could never have won an actual guerilla war, because the US would have just marched into the cities and someone like Butler would have started taking hostages. (Which desu he should have actually done)

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 00:46:04 No.11730800 Report

Quoted By: >>11736832

>>11729589
>What did this guy actually do that was so great?

He prevented a Union victory in the Summer of 1862 when the Confederacy was on the ropes. Union troops could literally see Richmond in the distance at the start of the Seven Days Battles. By the end of it, they had been driven all the way back to their starting point on the coast. Thanks in no small part to Robert E. Lee.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 00:46:18 No.11730801 Report

Quoted By: >>11730828

>>11730733
>North already has Maryland, on Virginia’s doorstep
>can literally shuttle troops over Appalachia with the Baltimore & Ohio railway
>the South’s “””defense””” is restricted to 4 states at best
>Scott’s naval Anaconda blockade still goes into effect

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 00:46:40 No.11730802 Report

Quoted By: >>11730942

>>11730682
Obligatory not him. A guerilla warfare CSA or even a Fabian tactic CSA is not gonna be a threat to the union, they've been dealing with low level war throughout the Midwest and South in the from of the Indian Wars. A Fabian tactic CSA is just gonna collapse once the border states realize they aren't getting any backup from Richmond. The union can force them to fight by threatening the cities which just leads to the same conclusion: the south gets steamrolled by union resources.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 00:48:07 No.11730811 Report

Quoted By:

>>11729589
He was I1, tested.
He clearly had a mindset to protect his holdings, which he did heroically.
But he lead the army into formal engagements.
Unlike men such as Cantrell (I2, paternal relative tested) who lead gorilla raids.
He was going for the decisive strike but he was not blessed with such good fortune as Caesar and Napoleon, his opponents were skillful and cunning.
>>11729734
Pickett's was a minor success until the Union reinforced their position with flank troops which had won their engagements.
It was a gamble.
Also, I've walked the charge. Its not bad. it looks like a field battle.
Its only seen as a colossal mistake because the Federals reinforced their line and Lee did not know he was now fighting a much larger force than what he was attacking with.
Also the copse wasnt a well defended area, it was slightly down from where the Confederates charged.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 00:48:21 No.11730816 Report

Quoted By:

If Britain and other European states had sided with the CSA as they were considering initially, it probably would've swung in their favor. However it wasn't gonna happen after Lincoln made the Emancipation Proclamation. That tied the Union's objective in the war to ending slavery, and Britain in particular could not openly oppose the Union after that because their own government had denounced and outlawed slavery not too long ago, Parliament would never stand for fighting on the wrong side of a war to end slavery.

So the real win condition I think is to assassinate Lincoln before the Emancipation Proclamation, preferably this would take out Hannibal Hamlin, his VP in his first term, as well, since he was also a big proponent of the Emancipation. With both President and Vice President gone the next in line for presidential succession would be President Pro Tempore of the Senate, which during Lincoln's first term was Solomon Foot for all four years, a newly minted Republican of Whig political history. This man was very loyal to the Union but I'm not sure about his attitude toward Abolition. It might be under Foot there would be no Emancipation.

With that hurdle cleared, you have the basis for Britain and other European powers aiding the south. They could provide naval support to keep ports open, material aid, even troops.

Short of foreign intervention I don't see it working out. The North had the war won, logistically, even before Sherman destroyed the South's rail infrastructure. Granted the North threw away a lot of its advantage in the early years of the war by appointing incompetents to command the main northern force in the east. But even in the best case scenario where Grant and Sherman never end up in positions of greater influence in the Union Army, I don't see the South winning, not against the overwhelming economic might of the North.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 00:48:57 No.11730819 Report

Quoted By: >>11730928

>>11729125

More industry and producing crops you can eat not sell. Dont go to war if you have a non diversified colonial economy

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 00:49:53 No.11730828 Report

Quoted By: >>11730884

>>11730801
The South could have won if they invented terrorism and bombed the railway.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 00:49:53 No.11730829 Report

Quoted By:

>>11730423
This is true.
The confederates had numbers, which the natives did not, and as late as 1860 the Seminole had to be militarily removed.
The South wouldnt have won, but the North definitely would have lost if the Southern boys engaged in drawn out guerilla campaigns.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 00:58:26 No.11730884 Report

Quoted By: >>11730952 >>11731221

>>11730828
>if they invented terrorism and bombed the railway.
Bro, do you know literally anything about the Civil War?
The Rebels were constantly attacking Union railways and blowing up bridges. The one in Harpers Ferry alone was blown up like 5 times. But you know what was in Maryland? In Union control? The thing that made Baltimore and the B&O the achievement that it was?
The South’s greatest railroad industry.
For all the Rebels terrorist attacks, Baltimore-based Union engineers just rebuild what they destroyed. And they did it in no time. Those 5 times the Rebs blew up the Harpers Ferry rail line? Union engineers rebuilt that shit in a matter of weeks

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 01:03:39 No.11730923 Report

Quoted By: >>11730939

>>11729125
Kill the plantation-class at the beginning of the war.
>In order to prevent events similar to Nat Turner’s revolt in 1831, the Confederate Congress passed a Second Conscription Act, which included a piece of legislation that would become known as the “Twenty Negro Law.” It exempted from military service one white overseer for every 20 enslaved people on a plantation, “to secure the proper police of the country.” This would allow enough white males to stay home to defend against a so-called domestic insurrection.

>This law was highly unpopular among poor white Southerners, who owned little to no slaves. It also angered ordinary Confederate soldiers, such as Sam R. Watkins. He wrote in his well-known memoir Co. Aytch that the Twenty Negro Law “gave us the blues; we wanted 20 negroes.” It also “raised the howl of ‘rich man’s war, poor man’s fight,’” a common theme that arose both North and South whenever the draft was invoked. However, the cry took on a more acrimonious tone among white Southerners, who feared their rights were once again being trampled upon by an overbearing federal government. Their “peculiar institution” further intensified such resentment. Yet the law remained in place until the Confederate government ceased to exist at the end of the war.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 01:03:47 No.11730928 Report

Quoted By:

>>11730819
The South didn't have a food shortage. If anything, their agricultural economy was more valuable than the North's industrial one, especially for international trade. Cotton was a highly valued material everywhere, but especially in Europe because they couldn't grow it locally. Without the cotton plantations in the Americas they had to import it from Asia, which was obscenely expensive. The only other alternative was to trade with the Ottoman Empire to get it, but they weren't about to do business with a Muslim empire. That meant American plantation owners could sell their cotton to Europe at a cost that undercut their Asian colonies and still make an immense profit.

What the south lacked wasn't money or food, it lacked heavy industry and manufacturing. It had fewer railroads than the North too. This meant it was harder for them to manufacture weapons and munitions for war. The north had an order of magnitude easier time producing guns, bullets, cannon, etc than the South did. They had more shipyards so they could churn out new warships too. The south simply got outproduced. They had a much larger volunteer army but the North could simply conscript people from their overall larger population of free citizens, while the North could not risk arming slaves and had to keep a watch on them even as they fought the Union.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 01:05:09 No.11730939 Report

Quoted By:

>>11730923
>which included a piece of legislation that would become known as the “Twenty Negro Law.”
Dixietards will defend this

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 01:05:25 No.11730942 Report

Quoted By:

>>11730802
Yeah but the Indians were outnumbered by the US army like 100:1 and had little in the way of central leadership, the CSA on the other hand had a modern organised army hundreds of thousands strong.
What I'm thinking though is that the border states are the most defensible states. Virginia, Tennessee and Arkansas are all full of mountains and swamps. If the confederates dedicated themselves to keeping it defensive these would have been very difficult battlegrounds. Invading through Texas might be easier, but only in the short term because then you need to keep crossing a much vaster, hotter, swampier terrain even more conducive to disease. If the South ever had any hope of winning disease was definitely the key, IRL the losses inflicted by the Confederates in battle were but the bite of a flee compared to the men the Union was losing on the toilet.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 01:05:47 No.11730945 Report

Quoted By: >>11730986 >>11730998

>>11729234
India produced more cotton. They had no need for the South's slavery

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 01:06:39 No.11730952 Report

Quoted By: >>11731003

>>11730884
*bombs it again*
ur move

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 01:12:45 No.11730986 Report

Quoted By:

>>11730945
Suez canal didn't exist yet so Indian cotton cost a stiff premium.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 01:16:09 No.11730998 Report

Quoted By:

>>11730945
India was on the other side of the earth and it took basically an entire year for a voyage to Europe. And said voyage was not a guaranteed thing either, cause it's a long, long way around Africa, through seas with pirates and hostile ships from foreign powers. Yes, Britain could export cotton from India, but it was expensive and uncertain. Cotton from America was abundant and far cheaper to import.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 01:17:13 No.11731003 Report

Quoted By: >>11731015

>>11730952
*rebuilds it again and takes more of your niggers*
You’re lookin’ a little thin, bud. Supply lines drying up?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 01:19:20 No.11731015 Report

Quoted By:

>>11731003
No.... my niggers....

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 01:35:45 No.11731081 Report

Quoted By: >>11731093 >>11731127

How did the CSA justify their claims to Kentucky and Missouri if they were all about states rights?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 01:38:34 No.11731093 Report

Quoted By: >>11731099 >>11731107

>>11731081
Cause there was a lot of support for secession in those states.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 01:39:35 No.11731099 Report

Quoted By:

>>11731093
Yeah but surely the ideologically consistent thing to do is let the state government decide if it wants to join the CSA or not.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 01:41:12 No.11731107 Report

Quoted By:

>>11731093
>Cause there was a lot of support for secession in those states.
>in Kentucky and Missouri
That’s a bold-faced lie.
Kentucky had the largest number of fighting-age men in the country who refused to fight for either side

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 01:43:53 No.11731126 Report

Quoted By: >>11731135

>>11729125
They would have needed a real economy and functional infrastructure. They were literally a slave plantation economy. It wasn’t even third world. It was basically feudal lords with a few retainers, a bunch of miserable serfs, and whatever marginal people that existed by eeking out a living with subsistence farming and honest to fucking god hunter gatherer style foraging. That huge chunks of their population despised the CSA and treated Burnin’ Sherman as a fucking arsonist-hero should tell you all you need to know.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 01:44:03 No.11731127 Report

Quoted By: >>11731171

>>11731081
>if they were all about states rights?
States rights went out the door the moment California wanted to be a Free state. Bleeding Kansas was literally about Southerners from out of state trying to bum-rush the elections so they could make it a slave state

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 01:45:04 No.11731135 Report

Quoted By: >>11731167

>>11731126
Absolutely Southron-pilled take
The South was an American feudal state

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 01:50:36 No.11731167 Report

Quoted By: >>11731221

>>11731135
I mean shit, it had actual landed gentry and a serf class. Their economy consisted of beating black people until they grew cash crops which were exported. That. Was. It. This was a region that was suffering from fucking endemic pallagra. In an era where most of the new world was several inches taller than their old world kin because of better nutrition. Yah. That’s going to win against a heavily populated, industrialized, productive, modern society with a functional middle class and the ability to smelt metal rather than buying it from Britain or Germany with slave-beating cotton money.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 01:51:33 No.11731171 Report

Quoted By: >>11731196 >>11731233

>>11731127
To be fair Bleeding Kansas also featured abolitionist yankees bussing in settlers from New England because without intervention it would have for certain been populated by proslavery Missourians.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 01:55:45 No.11731196 Report

Quoted By: >>11731219 >>11731233 >>11735007

>>11731171
The "Busing" only started after free soilers were literally attacked in the streets.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 01:59:54 No.11731219 Report

Quoted By:

>>11731196
This is post war revisionism, there was always violence on both sides. "Border ruffians" are possibly one of the earliest examples of modern fake news.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 02:00:03 No.11731221 Report

Quoted By: >>11731583 >>11731802 >>11733298

>>11731167
Absolutely based take
My favorite anecdote about the Civil War, as I mentioned here >>11730884 is that the one (1) major industrial city the South had was basically in the North, and in the same state as the capital ffs. Outside of Virginia’s one (1) iron works, run with nigger labor no less, the South had absolutely no industry, no serious engineering class to speak of, and their rail network was so fucking bad it couldn’t even handle moving grain to support Lee’s army without cars toppling over en route under their own weight. Once Grant cut Texas off from the rest of the CSA by taking Vicksburg the South was fully on the road to “we’re going to starve before we can win this by endless attrition”.
I can’t believe dixiefags actually defend this backwater, feudal state of effeminate, debt-ridden aristocrats who kept their fellow white men disenfranchised to protect their niggers and mulatto mutt children

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 02:02:45 No.11731233 Report

Quoted By: >>11731277

>>11731171
>featured abolitionist yankees bussing in settlers from New England
Lmfao are you serious bro? See >>11731196
>there was always violence on both sides
Absolutely peak dixietard cope
>muh fake news
Oh, you’re actually retarded. Poor thing

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 02:09:14 No.11731277 Report

Quoted By: >>11731305

>>11731233
>Yankees= virtuous, civilised, non-violent, would never attack anyone in the name of abolitionism
Total propaganda.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 02:13:12 No.11731305 Report

Quoted By: >>11731319

>>11731277
>he actually believes Lost Causer propaganda about the Yankee boogieman
You’d be one of the dirt-poor illiterate white men begging Massa if you could do some nigger-tier labor on his plantation, you know that, right?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 02:15:16 No.11731319 Report

Quoted By: >>11731339

>>11731305
Not even from America, just got solidarity for their noble struggle against Yankee imperialism.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 02:17:14 No.11731339 Report

Quoted By: >>11731377

>>11731319
>Not even from America
Bullshit. No foreigner talks about “yankee imperialism” against the heckin based confederinos
Cope harder, dixietard

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 02:24:30 No.11731377 Report

Quoted By: >>11731430

>>11731339
Europeans even at the time were writing about Yankee imperialism against the based Confederinos.
The South is just the more likeable America desu, anything actually good about America comes from the South.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 02:25:04 No.11731382 Report

Quoted By:

>>11729125
Free the Slaves

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 02:33:45 No.11731430 Report

Quoted By:

>>11731377
>European
>Irishman

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 03:24:26 No.11731583 Report

Quoted By: >>11731601 >>11731717

>>11731221
also makes all the "if the south won they totes could have conquered mexico" complete BS

If the South had remained independent the CSA would have been a South Africa tier shithole by now
The north saved them from their own stupidity, southerners should be thanking them on their knees for it

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 03:29:18 No.11731601 Report

Quoted By: >>11731717

>>11731583
But Brazil is white and based.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 03:57:07 No.11731710 Report

Quoted By:

>>11730344
Difference is the Union wasn't fighting the war with the goal of preserving slavery. The USA was a country with slavery, the CSA was a country explicitly founded on the continued preservation of slavery which was against the stated goals of Britain and France in combating the slave trade.

Plus they had already established largely friendly relations with the US, they had nothing to gain by betraying them in favour of an illegitimate rebel state.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 04:00:32 No.11731717 Report

Quoted By:

>>11731583
Exactly. The North would end up re-colonizing them by the end of the century to prevent them from becoming straight Africa-tier. And by then, it would either by 95% mulattos or, assuming the majority fled during the War, a feudal shithole where impoverished white boys took the place of blacks

>>11731601
Thanks to German immigration. The CSA would have found a way to bungle it though and make it a mulatto shithole

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 04:26:08 No.11731802 Report

Quoted By:

>>11731221
Oh I fucking know. Man, you know the CSA had to go to Britain to buy warships? All those famous commerce raiders (pirates) were built England … the CSS Alabama? Liverpool. CSS Shenandoah? Yah, that paragon of confederate bravery was built in Glasgow. CSS Florida? Liverpool again. The funny part is the British empire didn’t actually want to sell to the rebels but CSA agents used slave beating money to buy the ships from private firms which got a hellacious bitching out once uncovered. Fuckers even had to PAY the US for the damage their ships did to American shipping. Still, you want to know why they defend it? Because the aristocrats panicked and pitted them against blackie. It was like ‘hey, we brought these people over here, but now that we can’t beat/rape them all day we’re afraid they’re gonna pull a Haiti on us. Soooooo … fellow white man, how’s about you bash some jungle bunny for us?’ It eventually became a point of pride to serve as useful idiots. Which is embarrassing, but then again when you’ve got like fourth world hell as the basis of your society? Isn’t like you got off on good footing. I like that you bring up their enormous debt and the state of their rail network though. These are things their booster fags never bring up.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 06:11:28 No.11732071 Report

Quoted By:

>>11730716
>+1000% ahead of time penalty blocks your path

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 13:31:20 No.11733298 Report

Quoted By:

>>11731221
>of, and their rail network was so fucking bad it couldn’t even handle moving grain to support Lee’s army without cars toppling over en route under their own weight
The south has a very extensive rail network, but me of the largest in the world, blanketing everything east of the Mississippi with a couple of crucial gaps and some differences in gauge. In the first couple of years they performed some remarkable logistics feats but as time went on the Yankees cut crucial lines and the system began to wear out. Slave labor was great for grunt labor intensive 19th century railroading but without the industry to make rails and locomotives plus the Union blockade cutting off their British sources, Dixie railroads fell apart.
Many southern railroads were state owned and a demand by the military for trains would be met by some autistic governor standing up for states rights. By contrast, the private capital northern lines cooperated and got rich, while in war zones the Union military ran the railroads efficiently. Just one more reason the south lost.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 14:35:43 No.11733598 Report

Quoted By: >>11733616

>>11729173
>Secede the union because it impedes on states' rights
>Immediatly start impeding the confederate states' rights
How to lose an army's loyalty in two easy steps

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 14:38:31 No.11733616 Report

Quoted By: >>11738116

>>11733598
But they didn't lose their army's loyalty, because the confederate soldiers did not care about actual state's rights. They cared about slavery.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 14:43:43 No.11733653 Report

Quoted By: >>11734981 >>11734998 >>11735052

>>11729125
Historical Navel Gazing is never productive. There is no one thing that would have changed the war. If you want Lee to win Gettysburg why not go all the way back to not firing on Fort Sumter to start the whole thing?

Or holding off another 50 years, letting the tractor replace dozens of slaves a peice, dropping slavery and the CSA swimming in foreign aid?

Why not expand slavery to other races and bribe key peoples over to the confederate cause with access to the new concubine markets?

I'm not making fun of you, I'm just saying. This is all pointless. The war happened, the results are in, nothing is going to change them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 18:11:25 No.11734932 Report

Quoted By: >>11735046 >>11735119 >>11735188

>>11729125
Lots of ways could work.
>Focus everything at the beginning of the war into making one big push through Ohio/Pennsylvania until CSA forces reach Lake Erie. With New England+New York cut off from the Midwest, hold position and essentially starve the Yankees out into submission as they can no longer access the vast farmlands of the West.
>Fight defensively during the war and force Union troops to go through a slow, grinding advance. When the conventional army is broken just go hide in the swamps, mountains, and forests and harass the Union forces in a guerilla war, Vietnam/Afghanistan style, until Washington breaks and gives up.
>Make up for your population advantage by recruiting Natives and Blacks. Tell Natives that in exchange for their support the CSA will break off a chunk of the Union’s Western territories and give it to the Natives as an independent state for them to govern, meanwhile enlist Blacks into the army with the promise that with sufficient performance in battle they can win their freedom.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO death to the union.gif, 4MiB, 316x180

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 18:22:04 No.11734981 Report

Quoted By: >>11735009

>>11733653
>nothing is going to change them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 18:24:45 No.11734998 Report

Quoted By:

>>11733653
>you shouldnt analyze history

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 18:25:54 No.11735007 Report

Quoted By: >>11737322

>>11731196
>freesoilers
the antecedents of todays alt right

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 18:26:28 No.11735009 Report

Quoted By: >>11735028

>>11734981
>150 years later
>good ol boys from the south are still getting killed for the union's imperialist wars
>the south is one of the biggest contributors to the military, with fort bragg in the south being one of america's main forts
kek

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 18:29:24 No.11735028 Report

Quoted By:

>>11735009
>the southern population is militarized and when the american bureaucracy fails is an excellent position to secede

hmm

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 18:31:02 No.11735037 Report

Quoted By:

>>11729125
Impossible, the way to win would be to pull back and combine forces but the states refused this. They were too selfish to win. If anyone wishes to challenge me on this I do have a source.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 18:33:20 No.11735046 Report

Quoted By: >>11735069 >>11735084

>>11734932
>meanwhile enlist Blacks into the army with the promise that with sufficient performance in battle they can win their freedom.
Why should the black fight for the people who were enslaving them rather than just surrender to the North or turn against their master?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 18:34:13 No.11735052 Report

Quoted By:

>>11733653
>Historical Navel Gazing is never productive
You must be a total bugman to never look at lost historical wars and battles then think "hmm, how would I try to win that".

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 18:36:58 No.11735069 Report

Quoted By:

>>11735046
That's what they did. They had mass desertions, with many putting on blue uniforms and coming back. My own ancestor was with Sherman burning the south since he escaped not too long before the war and wanted revenge.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO F3B0D628-EA44-45CB-B833-687BC17B (...).jpg, 368KiB, 750x989

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 18:39:19 No.11735077 Report

Quoted By:

Civil war was fake

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 18:40:01 No.11735084 Report

Quoted By:

>>11735046
Because this way they can own negro plantations of their own like real African kangs rather than becoming the ghetto dwelling underclass of the Yankee empire.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 18:42:43 No.11735095 Report

Quoted By: >>11735103

>>11729125
they easily could have won if the british intervened for the trent affair

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 18:43:56 No.11735103 Report

Quoted By: >>11735121 >>11735136

>>11735095
>They win if someone else fight for them
That would never have happened, it wouldn't ensure a victory, and it doesn't address the question.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 800px-Stand_Watie.jpg, 150KiB, 800x877

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 18:46:49 No.11735119 Report

Quoted By:

>>11734932
The CSA did actively recruit natives. The Five Civilised Tribes mostly fought for the South. In fact the very last Confederate general to surrender was also Chief of the Cherokee Nation.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 18:47:17 No.11735121 Report

Quoted By:

>>11735103
More importantly the civil war was fake as already proven.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 18:48:49 No.11735136 Report

Quoted By: >>11735265

>>11735103
>That would never have happened
The British have started wars for less than the insult that was the trent affair. The Union arrested British diplomats, it was more than enough of a casus belli.

Once the British are involved, a top tier army is invading from Canada, breaking the union blockade and giving the southerners breech loading artillery.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 19:00:41 No.11735188 Report

Quoted By: >>11735195

>>11734932
>Focus everything at the beginning of the war into making one big push through Ohio/Pennsylvania until CSA forces reach Lake Erie.
No way the CSA governors will agree to leave their states defenceless for an all in push to the great lakes. Theirs also the very real chance it's stopped by the armies of the East and West. Meanwhile you've lost your homefield advantage and the now defenceless South is getting ravaged.
>Fight defensively during the war and force Union troops to go through a slow, grinding advance.
The union is gonna ignore them and focus on the cities, forcing the CSA to fight them or collapse. Additionally, the union has been fighting natives in the swamps and plains for over a hundred years at this point.
>Make up for your population advantage by recruiting Natives and Blacks.
They already tried that, there wasn't nearly enough natives to make a difference and black soldiers just deserted to the North.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 19:01:59 No.11735195 Report

Quoted By:

>>11735188
Civil war was fake there are no graves or anything

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 19:05:38 No.11735212 Report

Quoted By:

>>11729125
Lincoln losing the 1864 election

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 19:07:28 No.11735219 Report

Quoted By:

If the CSA had won the war would they have been fit to take Cuba from Spain?
Obviously it would take an act of God for the CSA to beat the Union, but maybe Spain would be a more suitable opponent.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 19:15:17 No.11735265 Report

Quoted By: >>11735299

>>11735136
Wouldn't happen, they'd be bogged down and have not diplomatic integrity thus allowing once again for another power to come in and attack them. The Brits aren't stupid.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 19:22:25 No.11735299 Report

Quoted By: >>11735421

>>11735265
The British Navy in 1861 could absolutely crush the US Navy and still have more than enough ships spare to defend their whole empire. All the South would need is naval support and enough North American redcoats to open up another front in Canada which the UK could easily provide without jeopardising any other strategic interests.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 19:43:45 No.11735421 Report

Quoted By: >>11735502

>>11735299
Doubtful, and again the South wasn't worth the effort. History would side with me lost causer.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 19:56:08 No.11735502 Report

Quoted By:

>>11735421
It's not doubtful at all, the RN would crush the Americans at sea and reopen the shipping lanes. British professional troops could threaten the northern flank of the Union.

It would be completely worth the effort, because the British could not only seize parts of the union as reparations, but ensure America could never grow to oppose them.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 19:58:35 No.11735517 Report

Quoted By:

>>11729158
FPBP, the South's last chance was at Pratt Street. Once the Union mobilized without a capture of DC, it was over.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 21:49:17 No.11736123 Report

Quoted By:

The south might have had a chance if they took control in the west. Capture the arsenal in St. Louis and swing Missouri and Kentucky over to the Secesh. At the other end of the Mississippi, get those ironclads built and strengthen the forts before Farragut captures New Orleans. As long as the river war in the west was gutting out the CSA, anything Bobby Lee did short of a Cannae tiger victory and capture of Washington didn’t matter.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 22:42:31 No.11736404 Report

Quoted By: >>11736504

>>11730423
>Wars have been won by smaller armies against greater opposition with less favourable terrain. I really don't get the argument that the South was destined to fail no matter what.
It was destined to fail because the tides were turning against slavery. It had to go one way or another.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 14 Aug 2021 22:59:53 No.11736504 Report

Quoted By:

>>11736404
Just abolish slavery later, that's nbd. Brazil kept it going until 1888 and only ended that early because they had an SJW princess, the CSA could have easily kept up slavery into the 20th century,

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 15 Aug 2021 00:02:06 No.11736832 Report

Quoted By: >>11736856 >>11736873

>>11730800
>Union troops could literally see Richmond

I don't really see any realistic ways for the CSA to win, but the first thing that comes to mind is maybe switching the capitol to the deep south or something. I know Richmond was made capitol to lure VA into the war on the south's side, maybe they could've had Mobile be the war capitol, and Richmond intend to be the peace capitol or something.

Aside from that, I could see if they actually did get rid of slavery maybe then Europeans would be willing to ally the CSA, but getting rid of slavery is obviously not an option.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 15 Aug 2021 00:07:36 No.11736856 Report

Quoted By: >>11737531

>>11736832
Richmond seems like it was always intended to be a temporary capital. They were squeezed into the same building as the Virginia state capitol and having the national capital be coexistent with state territory seems counter to the whole states rights thing. If they survived they probably would have built a new city to be the capital without being part of any state kind of like DC.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 15 Aug 2021 00:10:39 No.11736873 Report

Quoted By: >>11736906

>>11736832
The CSA originally had the capitol in Alabama but Richmond was seen as a better place to have it due to the strategic importance. Really though Charleston might've been a better option if only because South Carolina was the only CSA state 110% into the Confederate cause with pretty much zero unionist sympathies.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 15 Aug 2021 00:15:53 No.11736906 Report

Quoted By:

>>11736873
But it also had by far the biggest slave to white man ratio, remember the CSA was incredibly paranoid about the potential of a Haiti style uprising.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 15 Aug 2021 01:14:49 No.11737267 Report

Quoted By: >>11737279

The CSA probably could have just not attacked Fort Sumter, focused on their own domestic problems and purchased any federal land in the south from the Union like 15 years later when all the Yankees calmed down about the abolitionism meme.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 85DEFB59-2E69-47E2-8A42-ABD45731 (...).jpg, 512KiB, 750x1238

Anonymous Sun 15 Aug 2021 01:16:34 No.11737279 Report

Quoted By: >>11737297

>>11737267
They did

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 15 Aug 2021 01:18:22 No.11737297 Report

Quoted By:

>>11737279
They did what?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 15 Aug 2021 01:19:49 No.11737309 Report

Quoted By:

>>11729234
Egypt, India? King Cotton was a miserable failure and only deprived the CSA of funds for weapons in the time window they had before USA could blockade them effectively.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 15 Aug 2021 01:21:37 No.11737322 Report

Quoted By:

>>11735007
The wide awakes and free soilers have a lot in common with the modern American far right actually.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Screenshot_20210814-202743_Photos.jpg, 79KiB, 1080x317

Anonymous Sun 15 Aug 2021 01:30:11 No.11737391 Report

Quoted By: >>11737399

>>11729125
The game was rigged from the start

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 4A1CDAB3-244E-4534-B21F-69CC4105 (...).jpg, 473KiB, 750x1220

Anonymous Sun 15 Aug 2021 01:31:43 No.11737399 Report

Quoted By: >>11737435 >>11737562

>>11737391
Civil war wasn't even real

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 15 Aug 2021 01:36:00 No.11737435 Report

Quoted By:

>>11737399
The entire period can be explained through GDP

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO DC.jpg, 87KiB, 509x433

Anonymous Sun 15 Aug 2021 01:47:53 No.11737531 Report

Quoted By: >>11738137

>>11736856
What shadow group builds the Southern capital city and where does it go?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 15 Aug 2021 01:53:10 No.11737562 Report

Quoted By:

>>11737399
Then why do I have an ancestral urge to skullfuck yankoids?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 15 Aug 2021 04:08:42 No.11738116 Report

Quoted By:

>>11733616
You're telling me that the average poor Confederates soldier gave a fuck about slavery? You must be out of your mind. The average soldier was concerned with defending their homes and families from invaders.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO Albert_Pike_-_Brady-Handy.jpg, 2MiB, 2805x3200

Anonymous Sun 15 Aug 2021 04:14:48 No.11738137 Report

Quoted By:

>>11737531
Probably the Freemasons again. The CSA was teeming with Masons.

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