I really ought to elaborate on a few things.
>>264931619>UI just maximize everything, from attacking to defending, it's not 'just' a stat boost.This could have been worded better, because this sentence just makes it sound like Ultra Instinct is a stat boost with extra steps.
Yes, Ultra Instinct was sold as a martial arts thing. Then that part of it was essentially sidelined in favour of becoming effectively another transformation that changes Goku's hair colour.
>17 was still at full strength while everyone else was running on fumesWe saw 17 keeping up with a Super Saiyan Blue Goku when he was going around recruiting fighters for the tournament. That's my issue, not that he had the most energy or that everyone else was exhausted.
Regardless of whether or not 17 saved the universe off-screen, it's very hard to suspend disbelief that he could keep up with a Goku that trained with Whis. Cell is eons weaker than Goku now, and he was a threat to the universe. Imagine if Tien was suddenly able to keep up with Gohan's Beast Form or Black Frieza, even though we knew he always kept up his training. There's no reason that Tien's training should be able to allow him keep up with Black Frieza.
The real issue is that Dragon Ball keeps fluctuating with its portrayals, because past a certain point it starts to feel like people get arbitrarily stronger or weaker with the power of plot. There's a reason why the Resurrection of Frieza arc had to change Goku being one-shotted by the laser into him being in his base form instead of Super Saiyan Blue.
>yet another exemple of your view of DB being flawed but instead of seeing it, you dismiss it as 'something that shouldn't have happened'.I'm not sure what this means, so it's difficult for me to address it. Is this saying I refuse to acknowledge DB's flaws? I'm arguing against it, not in favour of it. That's how this conversation started.
>>264931678The problem is when people mix up "strongest fighter" with "best fighter". Before the topic shifted into apparently another Dragon Ball rant (I never noticed previous occurrences or at least wrote them off as minor), that was what people were arguing about. But it's just another variation of the chicken or egg argument. Is the best fighter just the guy who wins the fight, or is the best fighter the guy with the best all-around stats walking into the fight?
>>264931896The main thing in contention here is that Goku didn't lose because he was less creative and the fight likely would have been better if he just lost because he plain didn't have a counter to Hit's time skip. It would have been a better lead-in into the future Tournament of Power arc too, because that was an arc that explicitly focused on how strength isn't everything to win a fight, in spite of how I believe it didn't sell the concept well, and I say that as someone who could still enjoy it anyway. Actually focusing on Dragon Ball's writing? There are a lot of kinks.
The moment I saw Hit's time skip getting blown off, I knew Jiren was just going to do more of the same. Sure enough, his best technique was worthless. The Kienzan never got to do anything meaningful against any major villain. Likewise, Hit's time skip will have to share that fate.