/his/ - History & Humanities

118KiB, 1200x869, FC9A8B0F-7F51-443D-865E-EBF7FCA73731.jpg

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO

Anonymous Sun 02 May 2021 12:19:52 No.11025343 View View Reply Last 50 Original Report

Quoted By: >>11025808,1

How are you guys planning on celebrating V-E Day this Saturday?

59 posts and 16 images omitted

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 02 May 2021 13:21:57 No.11025649 Report

Quoted By: >>11025672

>>11025631
Your grandpa was a retard

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 02 May 2021 13:23:47 No.11025660 Report

Quoted By:

>>11025579
instead we live in a two party state where both parties are the exact same on most issues, where our government spends more on Israel than it does on its people, where our freedoms are being restricted, where crime and drug abuse has exploded, where my people are demoralised, degenerated and at the mercy of foreign people who despise us for imagined slights

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 02 May 2021 13:26:10 No.11025672 Report

Quoted By:

>>11025649

My grandpa was a patriot and a better man than you’ll ever be, you piece of shit Nazi scum.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 02 May 2021 13:53:39 No.11025808 Report

Quoted By:

>>11025487
large countries with plenty of resources don't NEED to invade others.
They can just economically rape smaller countries instead
Keep apologizing for interest-slavers tho friend :))

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:QddAObZy Mon 03 May 2021 14:42:50 No.11025808,1 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>11025343
Thx for making Europe a shithole

188KiB, 1109x593, Toile_1_(Musée_militaire_centrale_d'alger).jpg

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 07:53:34 No.10967955 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>10969846 >>10969846,1

Is it true that France committed genocide during its conquest of Algeria?

44 posts and 4 images omitted

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 12:46:16 No.10969339 Report

Quoted By:

>>10969032
>>10969013

Ah yes the eternal million of dead Algerian, which they somehow managed to compute without any records to base the calculations upon.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 12:47:53 No.10969347 Report

Quoted By:

>>10969201
Found the small brain
The death are spread across 30 years, which involves several generations, people born during the conflict....etc
If the death had all occured in 1830 then yes it would be "1/3rd of the population", but that's not the case.
If you take in account all the people who lived in Algeria between 1830 and 1867, you have a total much greater than 3 millions.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 12:50:33 No.10969368 Report

Quoted By:

>>10969200
Hopefully banned, shits up entire threads with pure autism.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Apr 2021 14:38:31 No.10969846 Report

Quoted By:

>>10967955
Indeed, this is really an horrible atrocity that was comitted. Millions and Millions of natives were genocided by violence and disease. So the French were forced to import slaves from South Arabia to populate the aera.

An this is why today Algeria is full of arabs.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:Vi6vEr/3 Wed 28 Apr 2021 09:27:46 No.10969846,1 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>10967955
Payback for the Barbary slave trade

112KiB, 736x1106, 0e7e2338332031e470f4e14ccc9a8b25.jpg

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO

Anonymous Thu 21 Jan 2021 10:59:11 No.10296329 View View Reply Last 50 Original Report

Quoted By:

Historically, what caused the chinese to develop such a collosal inferiority complex?

79 posts and 9 images omitted

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:rsaUUjiH Thu 22 Apr 2021 07:12:50 No.10297128,37 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>10297128,38 >>10297128,39 >>10297128,40 >>10297128,41

>>10296450 >>10297128,1 >>10297128,2 >>10297128,3 >>10297128,4 >>10297128,5 >>10297128,6 >>10297128,7 >>10297128,8 >>10297128,9 >>10297128,10 >>10297128,11 >>10297128,12 >>10297128,13 >>10297128,14 >>10297128,15 >>10297128,16 >>10297128,17 >>10297128,18 >>10297128,19 >>10297128,20 >>10297128,21 >>10297128,22 >>10297128,23 >>10297128,24 >>10297128,25 >>10297128,26 >>10297128,27 >>10297128,28 >>10297128,29 >>10297128,30 >>10297128,31 >>10297128,32 >>10297128,33 >>10297128,34 >>10297128,35 >>10297128,36
It is apparent here that Han’er, “man of Han,” means inhabitants of the Central Plains, that is, Chinese. Hanren also shows up in a discussion of Buddhism in the Weishu:
From now on, if anyone dares to serve the Hu gods by making statues of clay and bronze, they will be executed along with their entire family. Although they are said to be Hu gods, when you ask Hu people today, they say they have no such gods. This [the spread of Buddhism] all owes to those Han scoundrels of former times, Liu Yuanzhen and Lü Boqiang and their followers, who invoked the absurd sayings of those Hu beggars [i.e., Buddhists], embellished by the falsehoods of Laozi and Zhuangzi. None of it is true.40
In his study of the emergence of the ethnonym Han, Shaoyun Yang has found other evidence to suggest that Northern Wei literati were aware of this meaning of Han and that they used it in speaking about their language, that is, as Hanyu.41 Certainly this was the impression held by scholars during the Song dynasty. In Zizhi tongjian, Sima Guang refers to the wish of the Northern Wei ruler to remove the crown prince because “he is no longer like us and has taken on the qualities of the Han.” In his commentary, Hu Sanxing (1230–1302) explained to the reader, “The Xianbei called the people of the Central Country ‘Han.’”42
So it seems that the adoption of Han as a term for “the Chinese” was indeed well under way by the mid-sixth century. By virtue of these semantic shifts, Hua could also not conveniently be used by northerners to talk about Chinese in the south, so a new word, Nanren (Southerner), was introduced around this same time as a means of speaking about them.43 Southerners, on the other hand, continued to refer to themselves freely as Hua and to nomads (former nomads, really), as Yi; the term Beiren (Northerner) also emerged, but as a purely regional referent, applicable to anyone, Chinese or Särbi.44 The long life enjoyed by all these words which remained part of the Chinese political vocabulary for centuries, is testament to the fundamental divide between north and south, a divide eventually papered over by Han.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:rsaUUjiH Thu 22 Apr 2021 07:17:53 No.10297128,38 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>10297128,39 >>10297128,40 >>10297128,41

>>10296450 >>10297128,1 >>10297128,2 >>10297128,3 >>10297128,4 >>10297128,5 >>10297128,6 >>10297128,7 >>10297128,8 >>10297128,9 >>10297128,10 >>10297128,11 >>10297128,12 >>10297128,13 >>10297128,14 >>10297128,15 >>10297128,16 >>10297128,17 >>10297128,18 >>10297128,19 >>10297128,20 >>10297128,21 >>10297128,22 >>10297128,23 >>10297128,24 >>10297128,25 >>10297128,26 >>10297128,27 >>10297128,28 >>10297128,29 >>10297128,30 >>10297128,31 >>10297128,32 >>10297128,33 >>10297128,34 >>10297128,35 >>10297128,36 >>10297128,37
The quotation from the Weishu cited above, in particular the phrase qianshi Han ren, offers a clue as to the transformation of the term Han. One possible understanding of this phrase is that it means “a Han person of a former age,” that is, a former Han subject. However, since the figure of Liu Zhenyuan mentioned in the passage is identifiable as a Buddhist monk of the late fourth century, he was clearly not alive during the Han and therefore not a former Han subject. One is therefore led to conclude that Hanren here is an ethnic, not a political, label, an attempt by the author to draw attention to the fact that while Buddhism was originally a teaching of the Hu it was propagated by non-Hu followers such as Liu, who were manifestly Hanren, that is, Chinese. One imagines that the habit of referring to the Chinese as Hanren, “people of the Han,” remained in use in at least some circles and led to the kind of shorthand we see here, where it came to refer to latter-day descendants of former Han subjects who obviously no longer owed any political allegiance to the Han but were connected in other ways (descent, language, residence, custom) with people who had lived under the Han.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:rsaUUjiH Thu 22 Apr 2021 07:20:54 No.10297128,39 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>10297128,40 >>10297128,41

>>10296450 >>10297128,1 >>10297128,2 >>10297128,3 >>10297128,4 >>10297128,5 >>10297128,6 >>10297128,7 >>10297128,8 >>10297128,9 >>10297128,10 >>10297128,11 >>10297128,12 >>10297128,13 >>10297128,14 >>10297128,15 >>10297128,16 >>10297128,17 >>10297128,18 >>10297128,19 >>10297128,20 >>10297128,21 >>10297128,22 >>10297128,23 >>10297128,24 >>10297128,25 >>10297128,26 >>10297128,27 >>10297128,28 >>10297128,29 >>10297128,30 >>10297128,31 >>10297128,32 >>10297128,33 >>10297128,34 >>10297128,35 >>10297128,36 >>10297128,37 >>10297128,38
As we have few attestations of Hanren being used in this way before this time, it is difficult to know among which circles this habit may have been sustained. At a minimum, however, these citations make clear that distinguishing between Hu and Hua—or, from the point of view of the Northern Wei, distinguishing between Särbi and Han within the Hua ecumene—was everyday practice. It may have been the continuation of old practice: Just as Rum and Frank continued to be widely used in the Arab world to refer to regimes of Asia Minor and Europe, respectively, long after the demise of the Roman and Frankish empires, so Särbi people simply carried over the custom of referring to Central States people as Han.45 They did add a disrespectful twist, it seems, since the term Han’er is generally regarded as having carried pejorative connotations.46 And after all, ethnic groups often name each other in not very complimentary ways. The terminological evolution we observe in the north in the fifth and sixth centuries is, by this logic, a “natural” outcome of the intensified interaction between peoples who, on both sides, saw themselves as quite different from each other and were poised in distinctly unequal relationships. We can think of Hu (or the much more offensive Lu or Yi) as Chinese names for the Northern Other, while Han (or the less complimentary Han’er) was the Särbi name for the local Other in the Central Lands. We should also expect that the Särbi had another name, in the Särbi language, for the Chinese, which name corresponded to Han.47 Indeed, early on the need to communicate in the Chinese language may well have suggested the need to find a suitable corresponding term, with Han emerging as the most obvious choice.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:rsaUUjiH Thu 22 Apr 2021 07:24:05 No.10297128,40 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>10297128,41

>>10296450 >>10297128,1 >>10297128,2 >>10297128,3 >>10297128,4 >>10297128,5 >>10297128,6 >>10297128,7 >>10297128,8 >>10297128,9 >>10297128,10 >>10297128,11 >>10297128,12 >>10297128,13 >>10297128,14 >>10297128,15 >>10297128,16 >>10297128,17 >>10297128,18 >>10297128,19 >>10297128,20 >>10297128,21 >>10297128,22 >>10297128,23 >>10297128,24 >>10297128,25 >>10297128,26 >>10297128,27 >>10297128,28 >>10297128,29 >>10297128,30 >>10297128,31 >>10297128,32 >>10297128,33 >>10297128,34 >>10297128,35 >>10297128,36 >>10297128,37 >>10297128,38 >>10297128,39
Northern dominance over the centuries, and the switch by elites to exclusive use of the Chinese language, assured the rise of the ethnonym Han. But the Northern Wei attempt to reframe the discourse of “civilization” was only partially successful, and they certainly never managed to reunify the world, a task that fell to the Sui and the Tang—not coincidentally, both states that, like the Northern Wei, had strong connections to the world beyond tianxia, that is, to the northern steppe. If one can make a judgment on the basis of the use of terms in the dynastic histories, it seems that Hanren was not very widely used in the Sui. There are only three occurrences of the word in the Suishu, all clearly associated with stories from the Han period; when the meaning was “Chinese,” it seems, Hua remained the word of choice.48 Hua continued in use in the Tang and the Five Dynasties period, but Hanren in the meaning of Chinese came to be used with increasing frequency, usually in a pairing with Fan.49 This same use continued under the Song, when Ma Yongqing, writing in the early twelfth century, could simply remark, “the Yi and Di today call the Chinese ‘Han.’” 50 Yet the situation was not so simple, and Han did not stabilize nearly so quickly. Nor was it universally applied. As in earlier periods, it was at least as common to refer to people as Tangren (men of the Tang) or Songren (men of the Song) as it was to refer to them as Hanren; but when Hanren was used, it did not mean “men of the Han.” It meant “Chinese.” The tendency seems to have been to turn to this word when the subject at hand required drawing attention to ethnic or “national” distinctions that otherwise remained unsaid, whether because they were unimportant or because they were obvious.51 But beginning in the tenth century, Han took on new meanings that considerably exceeded those it had acquired up to that time. To some degree, one can characterize this as the unfolding of a bifurcated discourse, whereby on the one hand administrative exigencies prompted the assignation of the label upon new groups, usually politically defined, while on the other hand the memory of the earlier meaning of Han for “the Chinese” persisted, especially in popular usage.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:rsaUUjiH Thu 22 Apr 2021 08:05:53 No.10297128,41 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>10296450 >>10297128,1 >>10297128,2 >>10297128,3 >>10297128,4 >>10297128,5 >>10297128,6 >>10297128,7 >>10297128,8 >>10297128,9 >>10297128,10 >>10297128,11 >>10297128,12 >>10297128,13 >>10297128,14 >>10297128,15 >>10297128,16 >>10297128,17 >>10297128,18 >>10297128,19 >>10297128,20 >>10297128,21 >>10297128,22 >>10297128,23 >>10297128,24 >>10297128,25 >>10297128,26 >>10297128,27 >>10297128,28 >>10297128,29 >>10297128,30 >>10297128,31 >>10297128,32 >>10297128,33 >>10297128,34 >>10297128,35 >>10297128,36 >>10297128,37 >>10297128,38 >>10297128,39 >>10297128,40
Han Chinese genetics threads and Xianbei, Manchu and Mongol genetics.
https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/9469475/#9507399_1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pei_Xingjian
Pei Xingjian (Chinese: 裴行儉), courtesy name Shouyue (Chinese: 守約) was a Han Chinese Tang dynasty general and politician. He was best known for his victory over the Khan of Western Turkic Khaganate Ashina Duzhi. He was also responsible for escorting the Sasanian Persian king-in-exile Narsieh to Persia which was occupied by Arab conquerors. He dedicated most of his life to dealing with Turkic tribes in the Anxi Protectorate.[1][2]

According to his epitaph written by Zhang Yue, Pei had 2 spouses. His first wife was a Xianbei noble from Luoyang. He married his second wife after the first died. His second wife was of Turkic ethnicity.[5] This marital status of Pei made all his children only half Chinese.

Pei had 5 sons:

Pei Zhenyin, half Xianbei and the eldest son, died before his father leaving a son, Pei Canyuan.
Pei Chixuan, one of his younger sons. Had a son named Pei Guangdi.
Pei Yanxiu, one of his younger sons.
Pei Qingyuan, one of his younger sons.
Pei Guangting, half Turk. Xingjian's youngest son. Later became Chancellor of Tang.
https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/8078561/#q8118980_13
https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/8119566/#q8128869_13
https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/8101383/#8113948
https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/9505389/#9508255
https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/10237836/#10240593 Japan whored its women to Han Chinese for centuries. https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/9505389#p9508255 https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/9190120#p9197266 https://desuarchive.org/trash/thread/34035201/#q34043055 https://desuarchive.org/trash/thread/34035288/#q34037608

356KiB, 2256x1859, china-flag-map.png

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO

Anonymous Sun 31 Jan 2021 17:07:41 No.10361103 View View Reply Last 50 Original Report

Quoted By:

Why is China the only civilization that never fell?

72 posts and 10 images omitted

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:3xmNkSUG Thu 22 Apr 2021 07:12:23 No.10365561,40 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>10365561,41 >>10365561,42 >>10365561,43 >>10365561,44

>>10363850 >>10363857 >>10365561,3 >>10365561,4 >>10365561,5 >>10365561,6 >>10365561,7 >>10365561,8 >>10365561,9 >>10365561,10 >>10365561,11 >>10365561,12 >>10365561,13 >>10365561,14 >>10365561,15 >>10365561,16 >>10365561,17 >>10365561,18 >>10365561,19 >>10365561,20 >>10365561,21 >>10365561,22 >>10365561,23 >>10365561,24 >>10365561,25 >>10365561,26 >>10365561,27 >>10365561,28 >>10365561,29 >>10365561,30 >>10365561,31 >>10365561,32 >>10365561,33 >>10365561,34 >>10365561,35 >>10365561,36 >>10365561,37 >>10365561,38 >>10365561,39
It is apparent here that Han’er, “man of Han,” means inhabitants of the Central Plains, that is, Chinese. Hanren also shows up in a discussion of Buddhism in the Weishu:
From now on, if anyone dares to serve the Hu gods by making statues of clay and bronze, they will be executed along with their entire family. Although they are said to be Hu gods, when you ask Hu people today, they say they have no such gods. This [the spread of Buddhism] all owes to those Han scoundrels of former times, Liu Yuanzhen and Lü Boqiang and their followers, who invoked the absurd sayings of those Hu beggars [i.e., Buddhists], embellished by the falsehoods of Laozi and Zhuangzi. None of it is true.40
In his study of the emergence of the ethnonym Han, Shaoyun Yang has found other evidence to suggest that Northern Wei literati were aware of this meaning of Han and that they used it in speaking about their language, that is, as Hanyu.41 Certainly this was the impression held by scholars during the Song dynasty. In Zizhi tongjian, Sima Guang refers to the wish of the Northern Wei ruler to remove the crown prince because “he is no longer like us and has taken on the qualities of the Han.” In his commentary, Hu Sanxing (1230–1302) explained to the reader, “The Xianbei called the people of the Central Country ‘Han.’”42
So it seems that the adoption of Han as a term for “the Chinese” was indeed well under way by the mid-sixth century. By virtue of these semantic shifts, Hua could also not conveniently be used by northerners to talk about Chinese in the south, so a new word, Nanren (Southerner), was introduced around this same time as a means of speaking about them.43 Southerners, on the other hand, continued to refer to themselves freely as Hua and to nomads (former nomads, really), as Yi; the term Beiren (Northerner) also emerged, but as a purely regional referent, applicable to anyone, Chinese or Särbi.44 The long life enjoyed by all these words which remained part of the Chinese political vocabulary for centuries, is testament to the fundamental divide between north and south, a divide eventually papered over by Han.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:3xmNkSUG Thu 22 Apr 2021 07:17:34 No.10365561,41 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>10365561,42 >>10365561,43 >>10365561,44

>>10363850 >>10363857 >>10365561,3 >>10365561,4 >>10365561,5 >>10365561,6 >>10365561,7 >>10365561,8 >>10365561,9 >>10365561,10 >>10365561,11 >>10365561,12 >>10365561,13 >>10365561,14 >>10365561,15 >>10365561,16 >>10365561,17 >>10365561,18 >>10365561,19 >>10365561,20 >>10365561,21 >>10365561,22 >>10365561,23 >>10365561,24 >>10365561,25 >>10365561,26 >>10365561,27 >>10365561,28 >>10365561,29 >>10365561,30 >>10365561,31 >>10365561,32 >>10365561,33 >>10365561,34 >>10365561,35 >>10365561,36 >>10365561,37 >>10365561,38 >>10365561,39 >>10365561,40
The quotation from the Weishu cited above, in particular the phrase qianshi Han ren, offers a clue as to the transformation of the term Han. One possible understanding of this phrase is that it means “a Han person of a former age,” that is, a former Han subject. However, since the figure of Liu Zhenyuan mentioned in the passage is identifiable as a Buddhist monk of the late fourth century, he was clearly not alive during the Han and therefore not a former Han subject. One is therefore led to conclude that Hanren here is an ethnic, not a political, label, an attempt by the author to draw attention to the fact that while Buddhism was originally a teaching of the Hu it was propagated by non-Hu followers such as Liu, who were manifestly Hanren, that is, Chinese. One imagines that the habit of referring to the Chinese as Hanren, “people of the Han,” remained in use in at least some circles and led to the kind of shorthand we see here, where it came to refer to latter-day descendants of former Han subjects who obviously no longer owed any political allegiance to the Han but were connected in other ways (descent, language, residence, custom) with people who had lived under the Han.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:3xmNkSUG Thu 22 Apr 2021 07:20:34 No.10365561,42 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>10365561,43 >>10365561,44

>>10363850 >>10363857 >>10365561,3 >>10365561,4 >>10365561,5 >>10365561,6 >>10365561,7 >>10365561,8 >>10365561,9 >>10365561,10 >>10365561,11 >>10365561,12 >>10365561,13 >>10365561,14 >>10365561,15 >>10365561,16 >>10365561,17 >>10365561,18 >>10365561,19 >>10365561,20 >>10365561,21 >>10365561,22 >>10365561,23 >>10365561,24 >>10365561,25 >>10365561,26 >>10365561,27 >>10365561,28 >>10365561,29 >>10365561,30 >>10365561,31 >>10365561,32 >>10365561,33 >>10365561,34 >>10365561,35 >>10365561,36 >>10365561,37 >>10365561,38 >>10365561,39 >>10365561,40 >>10365561,41
As we have few attestations of Hanren being used in this way before this time, it is difficult to know among which circles this habit may have been sustained. At a minimum, however, these citations make clear that distinguishing between Hu and Hua—or, from the point of view of the Northern Wei, distinguishing between Särbi and Han within the Hua ecumene—was everyday practice. It may have been the continuation of old practice: Just as Rum and Frank continued to be widely used in the Arab world to refer to regimes of Asia Minor and Europe, respectively, long after the demise of the Roman and Frankish empires, so Särbi people simply carried over the custom of referring to Central States people as Han.45 They did add a disrespectful twist, it seems, since the term Han’er is generally regarded as having carried pejorative connotations.46 And after all, ethnic groups often name each other in not very complimentary ways. The terminological evolution we observe in the north in the fifth and sixth centuries is, by this logic, a “natural” outcome of the intensified interaction between peoples who, on both sides, saw themselves as quite different from each other and were poised in distinctly unequal relationships. We can think of Hu (or the much more offensive Lu or Yi) as Chinese names for the Northern Other, while Han (or the less complimentary Han’er) was the Särbi name for the local Other in the Central Lands. We should also expect that the Särbi had another name, in the Särbi language, for the Chinese, which name corresponded to Han.47 Indeed, early on the need to communicate in the Chinese language may well have suggested the need to find a suitable corresponding term, with Han emerging as the most obvious choice.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:3xmNkSUG Thu 22 Apr 2021 07:23:35 No.10365561,43 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>10365561,44

>>10363850 >>10363857 >>10365561,3 >>10365561,4 >>10365561,5 >>10365561,6 >>10365561,7 >>10365561,8 >>10365561,9 >>10365561,10 >>10365561,11 >>10365561,12 >>10365561,13 >>10365561,14 >>10365561,15 >>10365561,16 >>10365561,17 >>10365561,18 >>10365561,19 >>10365561,20 >>10365561,21 >>10365561,22 >>10365561,23 >>10365561,24 >>10365561,25 >>10365561,26 >>10365561,27 >>10365561,28 >>10365561,29 >>10365561,30 >>10365561,31 >>10365561,32 >>10365561,33 >>10365561,34 >>10365561,35 >>10365561,36 >>10365561,37 >>10365561,38 >>10365561,39 >>10365561,40 >>10365561,41 >>10365561,42
Northern dominance over the centuries, and the switch by elites to exclusive use of the Chinese language, assured the rise of the ethnonym Han. But the Northern Wei attempt to reframe the discourse of “civilization” was only partially successful, and they certainly never managed to reunify the world, a task that fell to the Sui and the Tang—not coincidentally, both states that, like the Northern Wei, had strong connections to the world beyond tianxia, that is, to the northern steppe. If one can make a judgment on the basis of the use of terms in the dynastic histories, it seems that Hanren was not very widely used in the Sui. There are only three occurrences of the word in the Suishu, all clearly associated with stories from the Han period; when the meaning was “Chinese,” it seems, Hua remained the word of choice.48 Hua continued in use in the Tang and the Five Dynasties period, but Hanren in the meaning of Chinese came to be used with increasing frequency, usually in a pairing with Fan.49 This same use continued under the Song, when Ma Yongqing, writing in the early twelfth century, could simply remark, “the Yi and Di today call the Chinese ‘Han.’” 50 Yet the situation was not so simple, and Han did not stabilize nearly so quickly. Nor was it universally applied. As in earlier periods, it was at least as common to refer to people as Tangren (men of the Tang) or Songren (men of the Song) as it was to refer to them as Hanren; but when Hanren was used, it did not mean “men of the Han.” It meant “Chinese.” The tendency seems to have been to turn to this word when the subject at hand required drawing attention to ethnic or “national” distinctions that otherwise remained unsaid, whether because they were unimportant or because they were obvious.51 But beginning in the tenth century, Han took on new meanings that considerably exceeded those it had acquired up to that time. To some degree, one can characterize this as the unfolding of a bifurcated discourse, whereby on the one hand administrative exigencies prompted the assignation of the label upon new groups, usually politically defined, while on the other hand the memory of the earlier meaning of Han for “the Chinese” persisted, especially in popular usage.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:3xmNkSUG Thu 22 Apr 2021 08:05:33 No.10365561,44 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>10363850 >>10363857 >>10365561,3 >>10365561,4 >>10365561,5 >>10365561,6 >>10365561,7 >>10365561,8 >>10365561,9 >>10365561,10 >>10365561,11 >>10365561,12 >>10365561,13 >>10365561,14 >>10365561,15 >>10365561,16 >>10365561,17 >>10365561,18 >>10365561,19 >>10365561,20 >>10365561,21 >>10365561,22 >>10365561,23 >>10365561,24 >>10365561,25 >>10365561,26 >>10365561,27 >>10365561,28 >>10365561,29 >>10365561,30 >>10365561,31 >>10365561,32 >>10365561,33 >>10365561,34 >>10365561,35 >>10365561,36 >>10365561,37 >>10365561,38 >>10365561,39 >>10365561,40 >>10365561,41 >>10365561,42 >>10365561,43
Han Chinese genetics threads and Xianbei, Manchu and Mongol genetics.
https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/9469475/#9507399_1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pei_Xingjian
Pei Xingjian (Chinese: 裴行儉), courtesy name Shouyue (Chinese: 守約) was a Han Chinese Tang dynasty general and politician. He was best known for his victory over the Khan of Western Turkic Khaganate Ashina Duzhi. He was also responsible for escorting the Sasanian Persian king-in-exile Narsieh to Persia which was occupied by Arab conquerors. He dedicated most of his life to dealing with Turkic tribes in the Anxi Protectorate.[1][2]

According to his epitaph written by Zhang Yue, Pei had 2 spouses. His first wife was a Xianbei noble from Luoyang. He married his second wife after the first died. His second wife was of Turkic ethnicity.[5] This marital status of Pei made all his children only half Chinese.

Pei had 5 sons:

Pei Zhenyin, half Xianbei and the eldest son, died before his father leaving a son, Pei Canyuan.
Pei Chixuan, one of his younger sons. Had a son named Pei Guangdi.
Pei Yanxiu, one of his younger sons.
Pei Qingyuan, one of his younger sons.
Pei Guangting, half Turk. Xingjian's youngest son. Later became Chancellor of Tang.
https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/8078561/#q8118980_13
https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/8119566/#q8128869_13
https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/8101383/#8113948
https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/9505389/#9508255
https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/10237836/#10240593 Japan whored its women to Han Chinese for centuries. https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/9505389#p9508255 https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/9190120#p9197266 https://desuarchive.org/trash/thread/34035201/#q34043055 https://desuarchive.org/trash/thread/34035288/#q34037608

68KiB, 960x640, china-map-trade-960x640.png

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO

China is the greatest country in all of history

Anonymous Wed 20 Jan 2021 21:15:01 No.10292425 View View Reply Last 50 Original Report

Quoted By:

Unlike the pathetic Romans, the Chinese have persisted throughout human existence. They are the perfect race and the perfect country. There is no beating them, only submitting to them. Admit to defeat and acknolwedge the true greatness that is China.

66 posts and 10 images omitted

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:Gl0zPJSK Thu 22 Apr 2021 07:11:52 No.10296702,39 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>10296702,40 >>10296702,41 >>10296702,42 >>10296702,43

>>10292481 >>10292743 >>10293532 >>10293556 >>10293733 >>10292481 >>10296702,1 >>10296702,2 >>10296702,3 >>10296702,4 >>10296702,5 >>10296702,6 >>10296702,7 >>10296702,8 >>10296702,9 >>10296702,10 >>10296702,11 >>10296702,12 >>10296702,13 >>10296702,14 >>10296702,15 >>10296702,16 >>10296702,17 >>10296702,18 >>10296702,19 >>10296702,20 >>10296702,21 >>10296702,22 >>10296702,23 >>10296702,24 >>10296702,25 >>10296702,26 >>10296702,27 >>10296702,28 >>10296702,29 >>10296702,30 >>10296702,31 >>10296702,32 >>10296702,33 >>10296702,34 >>10296702,35 >>10296702,36 >>10296702,37 >>10296702,38
It is apparent here that Han’er, “man of Han,” means inhabitants of the Central Plains, that is, Chinese. Hanren also shows up in a discussion of Buddhism in the Weishu:
From now on, if anyone dares to serve the Hu gods by making statues of clay and bronze, they will be executed along with their entire family. Although they are said to be Hu gods, when you ask Hu people today, they say they have no such gods. This [the spread of Buddhism] all owes to those Han scoundrels of former times, Liu Yuanzhen and Lü Boqiang and their followers, who invoked the absurd sayings of those Hu beggars [i.e., Buddhists], embellished by the falsehoods of Laozi and Zhuangzi. None of it is true.40
In his study of the emergence of the ethnonym Han, Shaoyun Yang has found other evidence to suggest that Northern Wei literati were aware of this meaning of Han and that they used it in speaking about their language, that is, as Hanyu.41 Certainly this was the impression held by scholars during the Song dynasty. In Zizhi tongjian, Sima Guang refers to the wish of the Northern Wei ruler to remove the crown prince because “he is no longer like us and has taken on the qualities of the Han.” In his commentary, Hu Sanxing (1230–1302) explained to the reader, “The Xianbei called the people of the Central Country ‘Han.’”42
So it seems that the adoption of Han as a term for “the Chinese” was indeed well under way by the mid-sixth century. By virtue of these semantic shifts, Hua could also not conveniently be used by northerners to talk about Chinese in the south, so a new word, Nanren (Southerner), was introduced around this same time as a means of speaking about them.43 Southerners, on the other hand, continued to refer to themselves freely as Hua and to nomads (former nomads, really), as Yi; the term Beiren (Northerner) also emerged, but as a purely regional referent, applicable to anyone, Chinese or Särbi.44 The long life enjoyed by all these words which remained part of the Chinese political vocabulary for centuries, is testament to the fundamental divide between north and south, a divide eventually papered over by Han.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:Gl0zPJSK Thu 22 Apr 2021 07:17:23 No.10296702,40 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>10296702,41 >>10296702,42 >>10296702,43

>>10292481 >>10292743 >>10293532 >>10293556 >>10293733 >>10292481 >>10296702,1 >>10296702,2 >>10296702,3 >>10296702,4 >>10296702,5 >>10296702,6 >>10296702,7 >>10296702,8 >>10296702,9 >>10296702,10 >>10296702,11 >>10296702,12 >>10296702,13 >>10296702,14 >>10296702,15 >>10296702,16 >>10296702,17 >>10296702,18 >>10296702,19 >>10296702,20 >>10296702,21 >>10296702,22 >>10296702,23 >>10296702,24 >>10296702,25 >>10296702,26 >>10296702,27 >>10296702,28 >>10296702,29 >>10296702,30 >>10296702,31 >>10296702,32 >>10296702,33 >>10296702,34 >>10296702,35 >>10296702,36 >>10296702,37 >>10296702,38 >>10296702,39
The quotation from the Weishu cited above, in particular the phrase qianshi Han ren, offers a clue as to the transformation of the term Han. One possible understanding of this phrase is that it means “a Han person of a former age,” that is, a former Han subject. However, since the figure of Liu Zhenyuan mentioned in the passage is identifiable as a Buddhist monk of the late fourth century, he was clearly not alive during the Han and therefore not a former Han subject. One is therefore led to conclude that Hanren here is an ethnic, not a political, label, an attempt by the author to draw attention to the fact that while Buddhism was originally a teaching of the Hu it was propagated by non-Hu followers such as Liu, who were manifestly Hanren, that is, Chinese. One imagines that the habit of referring to the Chinese as Hanren, “people of the Han,” remained in use in at least some circles and led to the kind of shorthand we see here, where it came to refer to latter-day descendants of former Han subjects who obviously no longer owed any political allegiance to the Han but were connected in other ways (descent, language, residence, custom) with people who had lived under the Han.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:Gl0zPJSK Thu 22 Apr 2021 07:20:22 No.10296702,41 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>10296702,42 >>10296702,43

>>10292481 >>10292743 >>10293532 >>10293556 >>10293733 >>10292481 >>10296702,1 >>10296702,2 >>10296702,3 >>10296702,4 >>10296702,5 >>10296702,6 >>10296702,7 >>10296702,8 >>10296702,9 >>10296702,10 >>10296702,11 >>10296702,12 >>10296702,13 >>10296702,14 >>10296702,15 >>10296702,16 >>10296702,17 >>10296702,18 >>10296702,19 >>10296702,20 >>10296702,21 >>10296702,22 >>10296702,23 >>10296702,24 >>10296702,25 >>10296702,26 >>10296702,27 >>10296702,28 >>10296702,29 >>10296702,30 >>10296702,31 >>10296702,32 >>10296702,33 >>10296702,34 >>10296702,35 >>10296702,36 >>10296702,37 >>10296702,38 >>10296702,39 >>10296702,40
As we have few attestations of Hanren being used in this way before this time, it is difficult to know among which circles this habit may have been sustained. At a minimum, however, these citations make clear that distinguishing between Hu and Hua—or, from the point of view of the Northern Wei, distinguishing between Särbi and Han within the Hua ecumene—was everyday practice. It may have been the continuation of old practice: Just as Rum and Frank continued to be widely used in the Arab world to refer to regimes of Asia Minor and Europe, respectively, long after the demise of the Roman and Frankish empires, so Särbi people simply carried over the custom of referring to Central States people as Han.45 They did add a disrespectful twist, it seems, since the term Han’er is generally regarded as having carried pejorative connotations.46 And after all, ethnic groups often name each other in not very complimentary ways. The terminological evolution we observe in the north in the fifth and sixth centuries is, by this logic, a “natural” outcome of the intensified interaction between peoples who, on both sides, saw themselves as quite different from each other and were poised in distinctly unequal relationships. We can think of Hu (or the much more offensive Lu or Yi) as Chinese names for the Northern Other, while Han (or the less complimentary Han’er) was the Särbi name for the local Other in the Central Lands. We should also expect that the Särbi had another name, in the Särbi language, for the Chinese, which name corresponded to Han.47 Indeed, early on the need to communicate in the Chinese language may well have suggested the need to find a suitable corresponding term, with Han emerging as the most obvious choice.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:Gl0zPJSK Thu 22 Apr 2021 07:23:20 No.10296702,42 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>10296702,43

>>10292481 >>10292743 >>10293532 >>10293556 >>10293733 >>10292481 >>10296702,1 >>10296702,2 >>10296702,3 >>10296702,4 >>10296702,5 >>10296702,6 >>10296702,7 >>10296702,8 >>10296702,9 >>10296702,10 >>10296702,11 >>10296702,12 >>10296702,13 >>10296702,14 >>10296702,15 >>10296702,16 >>10296702,17 >>10296702,18 >>10296702,19 >>10296702,20 >>10296702,21 >>10296702,22 >>10296702,23 >>10296702,24 >>10296702,25 >>10296702,26 >>10296702,27 >>10296702,28 >>10296702,29 >>10296702,30 >>10296702,31 >>10296702,32 >>10296702,33 >>10296702,34 >>10296702,35 >>10296702,36 >>10296702,37 >>10296702,38 >>10296702,39 >>10296702,40 >>10296702,41
Northern dominance over the centuries, and the switch by elites to exclusive use of the Chinese language, assured the rise of the ethnonym Han. But the Northern Wei attempt to reframe the discourse of “civilization” was only partially successful, and they certainly never managed to reunify the world, a task that fell to the Sui and the Tang—not coincidentally, both states that, like the Northern Wei, had strong connections to the world beyond tianxia, that is, to the northern steppe. If one can make a judgment on the basis of the use of terms in the dynastic histories, it seems that Hanren was not very widely used in the Sui. There are only three occurrences of the word in the Suishu, all clearly associated with stories from the Han period; when the meaning was “Chinese,” it seems, Hua remained the word of choice.48 Hua continued in use in the Tang and the Five Dynasties period, but Hanren in the meaning of Chinese came to be used with increasing frequency, usually in a pairing with Fan.49 This same use continued under the Song, when Ma Yongqing, writing in the early twelfth century, could simply remark, “the Yi and Di today call the Chinese ‘Han.’” 50 Yet the situation was not so simple, and Han did not stabilize nearly so quickly. Nor was it universally applied. As in earlier periods, it was at least as common to refer to people as Tangren (men of the Tang) or Songren (men of the Song) as it was to refer to them as Hanren; but when Hanren was used, it did not mean “men of the Han.” It meant “Chinese.” The tendency seems to have been to turn to this word when the subject at hand required drawing attention to ethnic or “national” distinctions that otherwise remained unsaid, whether because they were unimportant or because they were obvious.51 But beginning in the tenth century, Han took on new meanings that considerably exceeded those it had acquired up to that time. To some degree, one can characterize this as the unfolding of a bifurcated discourse, whereby on the one hand administrative exigencies prompted the assignation of the label upon new groups, usually politically defined, while on the other hand the memory of the earlier meaning of Han for “the Chinese” persisted, especially in popular usage.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:Gl0zPJSK Thu 22 Apr 2021 08:05:16 No.10296702,43 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>10292481 >>10292743 >>10293532 >>10293556 >>10293733 >>10292481 >>10296702,1 >>10296702,2 >>10296702,3 >>10296702,4 >>10296702,5 >>10296702,6 >>10296702,7 >>10296702,8 >>10296702,9 >>10296702,10 >>10296702,11 >>10296702,12 >>10296702,13 >>10296702,14 >>10296702,15 >>10296702,16 >>10296702,17 >>10296702,18 >>10296702,19 >>10296702,20 >>10296702,21 >>10296702,22 >>10296702,23 >>10296702,24 >>10296702,25 >>10296702,26 >>10296702,27 >>10296702,28 >>10296702,29 >>10296702,30 >>10296702,31 >>10296702,32 >>10296702,33 >>10296702,34 >>10296702,35 >>10296702,36 >>10296702,37 >>10296702,38 >>10296702,39 >>10296702,40 >>10296702,41 >>10296702,42
Han Chinese genetics threads and Xianbei, Manchu and Mongol genetics.
https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/9469475/#9507399_1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pei_Xingjian
Pei Xingjian (Chinese: 裴行儉), courtesy name Shouyue (Chinese: 守約) was a Han Chinese Tang dynasty general and politician. He was best known for his victory over the Khan of Western Turkic Khaganate Ashina Duzhi. He was also responsible for escorting the Sasanian Persian king-in-exile Narsieh to Persia which was occupied by Arab conquerors. He dedicated most of his life to dealing with Turkic tribes in the Anxi Protectorate.[1][2]

According to his epitaph written by Zhang Yue, Pei had 2 spouses. His first wife was a Xianbei noble from Luoyang. He married his second wife after the first died. His second wife was of Turkic ethnicity.[5] This marital status of Pei made all his children only half Chinese.

Pei had 5 sons:

Pei Zhenyin, half Xianbei and the eldest son, died before his father leaving a son, Pei Canyuan.
Pei Chixuan, one of his younger sons. Had a son named Pei Guangdi.
Pei Yanxiu, one of his younger sons.
Pei Qingyuan, one of his younger sons.
Pei Guangting, half Turk. Xingjian's youngest son. Later became Chancellor of Tang.
https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/8078561/#q8118980_13
https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/8119566/#q8128869_13
https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/8101383/#8113948
https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/9505389/#9508255
https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/10237836/#10240593 Japan whored its women to Han Chinese for centuries. https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/9505389#p9508255 https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/9190120#p9197266 https://desuarchive.org/trash/thread/34035201/#q34043055 https://desuarchive.org/trash/thread/34035288/#q34037608

68KiB, 960x640, 1E20F972-E7D3-4633-8464-B3FA3BAA10A9.png

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO

Anonymous Fri 05 Feb 2021 20:43:59 No.10397027 View View Reply Last 50 Original Report

Quoted By:

Excluding the modern day, why has China never been especially powerful historically despite its massive population?

67 posts and 10 images omitted

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:khHiJskQ Thu 22 Apr 2021 07:11:11 No.10400308,39 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>10400308,40 >>10400308,41 >>10400308,42 >>10400308,43

>>10397137 >>10400308,1 >>10400308,2 >>10400308,3 >>10400308,4 >>10400308,5 >>10400308,6 >>10400308,7 >>10400308,8 >>10400308,9 >>10400308,10 >>10400308,11 >>10400308,12 >>10400308,13 >>10400308,14 >>10400308,15 >>10400308,16 >>10400308,17 >>10400308,18 >>10400308,19 >>10400308,20 >>10400308,21 >>10400308,22 >>10400308,23 >>10400308,24 >>10400308,25 >>10400308,26 >>10400308,27 >>10400308,28 >>10400308,29 >>10400308,30 >>10400308,31 >>10400308,32 >>10400308,33 >>10400308,34 >>10400308,35 >>10400308,36 >>10400308,37 >>10400308,38
It is apparent here that Han’er, “man of Han,” means inhabitants of the Central Plains, that is, Chinese. Hanren also shows up in a discussion of Buddhism in the Weishu:
From now on, if anyone dares to serve the Hu gods by making statues of clay and bronze, they will be executed along with their entire family. Although they are said to be Hu gods, when you ask Hu people today, they say they have no such gods. This [the spread of Buddhism] all owes to those Han scoundrels of former times, Liu Yuanzhen and Lü Boqiang and their followers, who invoked the absurd sayings of those Hu beggars [i.e., Buddhists], embellished by the falsehoods of Laozi and Zhuangzi. None of it is true.40
In his study of the emergence of the ethnonym Han, Shaoyun Yang has found other evidence to suggest that Northern Wei literati were aware of this meaning of Han and that they used it in speaking about their language, that is, as Hanyu.41 Certainly this was the impression held by scholars during the Song dynasty. In Zizhi tongjian, Sima Guang refers to the wish of the Northern Wei ruler to remove the crown prince because “he is no longer like us and has taken on the qualities of the Han.” In his commentary, Hu Sanxing (1230–1302) explained to the reader, “The Xianbei called the people of the Central Country ‘Han.’”42
So it seems that the adoption of Han as a term for “the Chinese” was indeed well under way by the mid-sixth century. By virtue of these semantic shifts, Hua could also not conveniently be used by northerners to talk about Chinese in the south, so a new word, Nanren (Southerner), was introduced around this same time as a means of speaking about them.43 Southerners, on the other hand, continued to refer to themselves freely as Hua and to nomads (former nomads, really), as Yi; the term Beiren (Northerner) also emerged, but as a purely regional referent, applicable to anyone, Chinese or Särbi.44 The long life enjoyed by all these words which remained part of the Chinese political vocabulary for centuries, is testament to the fundamental divide between north and south, a divide eventually papered over by Han.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:khHiJskQ Thu 22 Apr 2021 07:17:00 No.10400308,40 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>10400308,41 >>10400308,42 >>10400308,43

>>10397137 >>10400308,1 >>10400308,2 >>10400308,3 >>10400308,4 >>10400308,5 >>10400308,6 >>10400308,7 >>10400308,8 >>10400308,9 >>10400308,10 >>10400308,11 >>10400308,12 >>10400308,13 >>10400308,14 >>10400308,15 >>10400308,16 >>10400308,17 >>10400308,18 >>10400308,19 >>10400308,20 >>10400308,21 >>10400308,22 >>10400308,23 >>10400308,24 >>10400308,25 >>10400308,26 >>10400308,27 >>10400308,28 >>10400308,29 >>10400308,30 >>10400308,31 >>10400308,32 >>10400308,33 >>10400308,34 >>10400308,35 >>10400308,36 >>10400308,37 >>10400308,38 >>10400308,39
The quotation from the Weishu cited above, in particular the phrase qianshi Han ren, offers a clue as to the transformation of the term Han. One possible understanding of this phrase is that it means “a Han person of a former age,” that is, a former Han subject. However, since the figure of Liu Zhenyuan mentioned in the passage is identifiable as a Buddhist monk of the late fourth century, he was clearly not alive during the Han and therefore not a former Han subject. One is therefore led to conclude that Hanren here is an ethnic, not a political, label, an attempt by the author to draw attention to the fact that while Buddhism was originally a teaching of the Hu it was propagated by non-Hu followers such as Liu, who were manifestly Hanren, that is, Chinese. One imagines that the habit of referring to the Chinese as Hanren, “people of the Han,” remained in use in at least some circles and led to the kind of shorthand we see here, where it came to refer to latter-day descendants of former Han subjects who obviously no longer owed any political allegiance to the Han but were connected in other ways (descent, language, residence, custom) with people who had lived under the Han.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:khHiJskQ Thu 22 Apr 2021 07:19:49 No.10400308,41 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>10400308,42 >>10400308,43

>>10397137 >>10400308,1 >>10400308,2 >>10400308,3 >>10400308,4 >>10400308,5 >>10400308,6 >>10400308,7 >>10400308,8 >>10400308,9 >>10400308,10 >>10400308,11 >>10400308,12 >>10400308,13 >>10400308,14 >>10400308,15 >>10400308,16 >>10400308,17 >>10400308,18 >>10400308,19 >>10400308,20 >>10400308,21 >>10400308,22 >>10400308,23 >>10400308,24 >>10400308,25 >>10400308,26 >>10400308,27 >>10400308,28 >>10400308,29 >>10400308,30 >>10400308,31 >>10400308,32 >>10400308,33 >>10400308,34 >>10400308,35 >>10400308,36 >>10400308,37 >>10400308,38 >>10400308,39 >>10400308,40
As we have few attestations of Hanren being used in this way before this time, it is difficult to know among which circles this habit may have been sustained. At a minimum, however, these citations make clear that distinguishing between Hu and Hua—or, from the point of view of the Northern Wei, distinguishing between Särbi and Han within the Hua ecumene—was everyday practice. It may have been the continuation of old practice: Just as Rum and Frank continued to be widely used in the Arab world to refer to regimes of Asia Minor and Europe, respectively, long after the demise of the Roman and Frankish empires, so Särbi people simply carried over the custom of referring to Central States people as Han.45 They did add a disrespectful twist, it seems, since the term Han’er is generally regarded as having carried pejorative connotations.46 And after all, ethnic groups often name each other in not very complimentary ways. The terminological evolution we observe in the north in the fifth and sixth centuries is, by this logic, a “natural” outcome of the intensified interaction between peoples who, on both sides, saw themselves as quite different from each other and were poised in distinctly unequal relationships. We can think of Hu (or the much more offensive Lu or Yi) as Chinese names for the Northern Other, while Han (or the less complimentary Han’er) was the Särbi name for the local Other in the Central Lands. We should also expect that the Särbi had another name, in the Särbi language, for the Chinese, which name corresponded to Han.47 Indeed, early on the need to communicate in the Chinese language may well have suggested the need to find a suitable corresponding term, with Han emerging as the most obvious choice.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:khHiJskQ Thu 22 Apr 2021 07:22:55 No.10400308,42 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>10400308,43

>>10397137 >>10400308,1 >>10400308,2 >>10400308,3 >>10400308,4 >>10400308,5 >>10400308,6 >>10400308,7 >>10400308,8 >>10400308,9 >>10400308,10 >>10400308,11 >>10400308,12 >>10400308,13 >>10400308,14 >>10400308,15 >>10400308,16 >>10400308,17 >>10400308,18 >>10400308,19 >>10400308,20 >>10400308,21 >>10400308,22 >>10400308,23 >>10400308,24 >>10400308,25 >>10400308,26 >>10400308,27 >>10400308,28 >>10400308,29 >>10400308,30 >>10400308,31 >>10400308,32 >>10400308,33 >>10400308,34 >>10400308,35 >>10400308,36 >>10400308,37 >>10400308,38 >>10400308,39 >>10400308,40 >>10400308,41
Northern dominance over the centuries, and the switch by elites to exclusive use of the Chinese language, assured the rise of the ethnonym Han. But the Northern Wei attempt to reframe the discourse of “civilization” was only partially successful, and they certainly never managed to reunify the world, a task that fell to the Sui and the Tang—not coincidentally, both states that, like the Northern Wei, had strong connections to the world beyond tianxia, that is, to the northern steppe. If one can make a judgment on the basis of the use of terms in the dynastic histories, it seems that Hanren was not very widely used in the Sui. There are only three occurrences of the word in the Suishu, all clearly associated with stories from the Han period; when the meaning was “Chinese,” it seems, Hua remained the word of choice.48 Hua continued in use in the Tang and the Five Dynasties period, but Hanren in the meaning of Chinese came to be used with increasing frequency, usually in a pairing with Fan.49 This same use continued under the Song, when Ma Yongqing, writing in the early twelfth century, could simply remark, “the Yi and Di today call the Chinese ‘Han.’” 50 Yet the situation was not so simple, and Han did not stabilize nearly so quickly. Nor was it universally applied. As in earlier periods, it was at least as common to refer to people as Tangren (men of the Tang) or Songren (men of the Song) as it was to refer to them as Hanren; but when Hanren was used, it did not mean “men of the Han.” It meant “Chinese.” The tendency seems to have been to turn to this word when the subject at hand required drawing attention to ethnic or “national” distinctions that otherwise remained unsaid, whether because they were unimportant or because they were obvious.51 But beginning in the tenth century, Han took on new meanings that considerably exceeded those it had acquired up to that time. To some degree, one can characterize this as the unfolding of a bifurcated discourse, whereby on the one hand administrative exigencies prompted the assignation of the label upon new groups, usually politically defined, while on the other hand the memory of the earlier meaning of Han for “the Chinese” persisted, especially in popular usage.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:khHiJskQ Thu 22 Apr 2021 08:04:55 No.10400308,43 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>10397137 >>10400308,1 >>10400308,2 >>10400308,3 >>10400308,4 >>10400308,5 >>10400308,6 >>10400308,7 >>10400308,8 >>10400308,9 >>10400308,10 >>10400308,11 >>10400308,12 >>10400308,13 >>10400308,14 >>10400308,15 >>10400308,16 >>10400308,17 >>10400308,18 >>10400308,19 >>10400308,20 >>10400308,21 >>10400308,22 >>10400308,23 >>10400308,24 >>10400308,25 >>10400308,26 >>10400308,27 >>10400308,28 >>10400308,29 >>10400308,30 >>10400308,31 >>10400308,32 >>10400308,33 >>10400308,34 >>10400308,35 >>10400308,36 >>10400308,37 >>10400308,38 >>10400308,39 >>10400308,40 >>10400308,41 >>10400308,42
Han Chinese genetics threads and Xianbei, Manchu and Mongol genetics.
https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/9469475/#9507399_1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pei_Xingjian
Pei Xingjian (Chinese: 裴行儉), courtesy name Shouyue (Chinese: 守約) was a Han Chinese Tang dynasty general and politician. He was best known for his victory over the Khan of Western Turkic Khaganate Ashina Duzhi. He was also responsible for escorting the Sasanian Persian king-in-exile Narsieh to Persia which was occupied by Arab conquerors. He dedicated most of his life to dealing with Turkic tribes in the Anxi Protectorate.[1][2]

According to his epitaph written by Zhang Yue, Pei had 2 spouses. His first wife was a Xianbei noble from Luoyang. He married his second wife after the first died. His second wife was of Turkic ethnicity.[5] This marital status of Pei made all his children only half Chinese.

Pei had 5 sons:

Pei Zhenyin, half Xianbei and the eldest son, died before his father leaving a son, Pei Canyuan.
Pei Chixuan, one of his younger sons. Had a son named Pei Guangdi.
Pei Yanxiu, one of his younger sons.
Pei Qingyuan, one of his younger sons.
Pei Guangting, half Turk. Xingjian's youngest son. Later became Chancellor of Tang.
https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/8078561/#q8118980_13
https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/8119566/#q8128869_13
https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/8101383/#8113948
https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/9505389/#9508255
https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/10237836/#10240593 Japan whored its women to Han Chinese for centuries. https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/9505389#p9508255 https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/9190120#p9197266 https://desuarchive.org/trash/thread/34035201/#q34043055 https://desuarchive.org/trash/thread/34035288/#q34037608

20KiB, 247x330, Junkofurutaportrait.jpg

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO

Anonymous Mon 18 Jan 2021 01:05:38 No.10270690 View View Reply Last 50 Original Report

Quoted By:

No human being in the history of humanity suffered as much as her

122 posts and 22 images omitted

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:wHpEqExV Thu 22 Apr 2021 07:09:28 No.10274595,38 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>10274595,39 >>10274595,40 >>10274595,41 >>10274595,42

>>10271062 >>10274595,1 >>10274595,2 >>10274595,3 >>10274595,4 >>10274595,5 >>10274595,6 >>10274595,7 >>10274595,8 >>10274595,9 >>10274595,10 >>10274595,11 >>10274595,12 >>10274595,13 >>10274595,14 >>10274595,15 >>10274595,16 >>10274595,17 >>10274595,18 >>10274595,19 >>10274595,20 >>10274595,21 >>10274595,22 >>10274595,23 >>10274595,24 >>10274595,25 >>10274595,26 >>10274595,27 >>10274595,28 >>10274595,29 >>10274595,30 >>10274595,31 >>10274595,32 >>10274595,33 >>10274595,34 >>10274595,35 >>10274595,36 >>10274595,37
It is apparent here that Han’er, “man of Han,” means inhabitants of the Central Plains, that is, Chinese. Hanren also shows up in a discussion of Buddhism in the Weishu:
From now on, if anyone dares to serve the Hu gods by making statues of clay and bronze, they will be executed along with their entire family. Although they are said to be Hu gods, when you ask Hu people today, they say they have no such gods. This [the spread of Buddhism] all owes to those Han scoundrels of former times, Liu Yuanzhen and Lü Boqiang and their followers, who invoked the absurd sayings of those Hu beggars [i.e., Buddhists], embellished by the falsehoods of Laozi and Zhuangzi. None of it is true.40
In his study of the emergence of the ethnonym Han, Shaoyun Yang has found other evidence to suggest that Northern Wei literati were aware of this meaning of Han and that they used it in speaking about their language, that is, as Hanyu.41 Certainly this was the impression held by scholars during the Song dynasty. In Zizhi tongjian, Sima Guang refers to the wish of the Northern Wei ruler to remove the crown prince because “he is no longer like us and has taken on the qualities of the Han.” In his commentary, Hu Sanxing (1230–1302) explained to the reader, “The Xianbei called the people of the Central Country ‘Han.’”42
So it seems that the adoption of Han as a term for “the Chinese” was indeed well under way by the mid-sixth century. By virtue of these semantic shifts, Hua could also not conveniently be used by northerners to talk about Chinese in the south, so a new word, Nanren (Southerner), was introduced around this same time as a means of speaking about them.43 Southerners, on the other hand, continued to refer to themselves freely as Hua and to nomads (former nomads, really), as Yi; the term Beiren (Northerner) also emerged, but as a purely regional referent, applicable to anyone, Chinese or Särbi.44 The long life enjoyed by all these words which remained part of the Chinese political vocabulary for centuries, is testament to the fundamental divide between north and south, a divide eventually papered over by Han.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:wHpEqExV Thu 22 Apr 2021 07:16:37 No.10274595,39 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>10274595,40 >>10274595,41 >>10274595,42

>>10271062 >>10274595,1 >>10274595,2 >>10274595,3 >>10274595,4 >>10274595,5 >>10274595,6 >>10274595,7 >>10274595,8 >>10274595,9 >>10274595,10 >>10274595,11 >>10274595,12 >>10274595,13 >>10274595,14 >>10274595,15 >>10274595,16 >>10274595,17 >>10274595,18 >>10274595,19 >>10274595,20 >>10274595,21 >>10274595,22 >>10274595,23 >>10274595,24 >>10274595,25 >>10274595,26 >>10274595,27 >>10274595,28 >>10274595,29 >>10274595,30 >>10274595,31 >>10274595,32 >>10274595,33 >>10274595,34 >>10274595,35 >>10274595,36 >>10274595,37 >>10274595,38
The quotation from the Weishu cited above, in particular the phrase qianshi Han ren, offers a clue as to the transformation of the term Han. One possible understanding of this phrase is that it means “a Han person of a former age,” that is, a former Han subject. However, since the figure of Liu Zhenyuan mentioned in the passage is identifiable as a Buddhist monk of the late fourth century, he was clearly not alive during the Han and therefore not a former Han subject. One is therefore led to conclude that Hanren here is an ethnic, not a political, label, an attempt by the author to draw attention to the fact that while Buddhism was originally a teaching of the Hu it was propagated by non-Hu followers such as Liu, who were manifestly Hanren, that is, Chinese. One imagines that the habit of referring to the Chinese as Hanren, “people of the Han,” remained in use in at least some circles and led to the kind of shorthand we see here, where it came to refer to latter-day descendants of former Han subjects who obviously no longer owed any political allegiance to the Han but were connected in other ways (descent, language, residence, custom) with people who had lived under the Han.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:wHpEqExV Thu 22 Apr 2021 07:19:22 No.10274595,40 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>10274595,41 >>10274595,42

>>10271062 >>10274595,1 >>10274595,2 >>10274595,3 >>10274595,4 >>10274595,5 >>10274595,6 >>10274595,7 >>10274595,8 >>10274595,9 >>10274595,10 >>10274595,11 >>10274595,12 >>10274595,13 >>10274595,14 >>10274595,15 >>10274595,16 >>10274595,17 >>10274595,18 >>10274595,19 >>10274595,20 >>10274595,21 >>10274595,22 >>10274595,23 >>10274595,24 >>10274595,25 >>10274595,26 >>10274595,27 >>10274595,28 >>10274595,29 >>10274595,30 >>10274595,31 >>10274595,32 >>10274595,33 >>10274595,34 >>10274595,35 >>10274595,36 >>10274595,37 >>10274595,38 >>10274595,39
As we have few attestations of Hanren being used in this way before this time, it is difficult to know among which circles this habit may have been sustained. At a minimum, however, these citations make clear that distinguishing between Hu and Hua—or, from the point of view of the Northern Wei, distinguishing between Särbi and Han within the Hua ecumene—was everyday practice. It may have been the continuation of old practice: Just as Rum and Frank continued to be widely used in the Arab world to refer to regimes of Asia Minor and Europe, respectively, long after the demise of the Roman and Frankish empires, so Särbi people simply carried over the custom of referring to Central States people as Han.45 They did add a disrespectful twist, it seems, since the term Han’er is generally regarded as having carried pejorative connotations.46 And after all, ethnic groups often name each other in not very complimentary ways. The terminological evolution we observe in the north in the fifth and sixth centuries is, by this logic, a “natural” outcome of the intensified interaction between peoples who, on both sides, saw themselves as quite different from each other and were poised in distinctly unequal relationships. We can think of Hu (or the much more offensive Lu or Yi) as Chinese names for the Northern Other, while Han (or the less complimentary Han’er) was the Särbi name for the local Other in the Central Lands. We should also expect that the Särbi had another name, in the Särbi language, for the Chinese, which name corresponded to Han.47 Indeed, early on the need to communicate in the Chinese language may well have suggested the need to find a suitable corresponding term, with Han emerging as the most obvious choice.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:wHpEqExV Thu 22 Apr 2021 07:22:25 No.10274595,41 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>10274595,42

>>10271062 >>10274595,1 >>10274595,2 >>10274595,3 >>10274595,4 >>10274595,5 >>10274595,6 >>10274595,7 >>10274595,8 >>10274595,9 >>10274595,10 >>10274595,11 >>10274595,12 >>10274595,13 >>10274595,14 >>10274595,15 >>10274595,16 >>10274595,17 >>10274595,18 >>10274595,19 >>10274595,20 >>10274595,21 >>10274595,22 >>10274595,23 >>10274595,24 >>10274595,25 >>10274595,26 >>10274595,27 >>10274595,28 >>10274595,29 >>10274595,30 >>10274595,31 >>10274595,32 >>10274595,33 >>10274595,34 >>10274595,35 >>10274595,36 >>10274595,37 >>10274595,38 >>10274595,39 >>10274595,40
Northern dominance over the centuries, and the switch by elites to exclusive use of the Chinese language, assured the rise of the ethnonym Han. But the Northern Wei attempt to reframe the discourse of “civilization” was only partially successful, and they certainly never managed to reunify the world, a task that fell to the Sui and the Tang—not coincidentally, both states that, like the Northern Wei, had strong connections to the world beyond tianxia, that is, to the northern steppe. If one can make a judgment on the basis of the use of terms in the dynastic histories, it seems that Hanren was not very widely used in the Sui. There are only three occurrences of the word in the Suishu, all clearly associated with stories from the Han period; when the meaning was “Chinese,” it seems, Hua remained the word of choice.48 Hua continued in use in the Tang and the Five Dynasties period, but Hanren in the meaning of Chinese came to be used with increasing frequency, usually in a pairing with Fan.49 This same use continued under the Song, when Ma Yongqing, writing in the early twelfth century, could simply remark, “the Yi and Di today call the Chinese ‘Han.’” 50 Yet the situation was not so simple, and Han did not stabilize nearly so quickly. Nor was it universally applied. As in earlier periods, it was at least as common to refer to people as Tangren (men of the Tang) or Songren (men of the Song) as it was to refer to them as Hanren; but when Hanren was used, it did not mean “men of the Han.” It meant “Chinese.” The tendency seems to have been to turn to this word when the subject at hand required drawing attention to ethnic or “national” distinctions that otherwise remained unsaid, whether because they were unimportant or because they were obvious.51 But beginning in the tenth century, Han took on new meanings that considerably exceeded those it had acquired up to that time. To some degree, one can characterize this as the unfolding of a bifurcated discourse, whereby on the one hand administrative exigencies prompted the assignation of the label upon new groups, usually politically defined, while on the other hand the memory of the earlier meaning of Han for “the Chinese” persisted, especially in popular usage.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:wHpEqExV Thu 22 Apr 2021 08:04:37 No.10274595,42 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>10271062 >>10274595,1 >>10274595,2 >>10274595,3 >>10274595,4 >>10274595,5 >>10274595,6 >>10274595,7 >>10274595,8 >>10274595,9 >>10274595,10 >>10274595,11 >>10274595,12 >>10274595,13 >>10274595,14 >>10274595,15 >>10274595,16 >>10274595,17 >>10274595,18 >>10274595,19 >>10274595,20 >>10274595,21 >>10274595,22 >>10274595,23 >>10274595,24 >>10274595,25 >>10274595,26 >>10274595,27 >>10274595,28 >>10274595,29 >>10274595,30 >>10274595,31 >>10274595,32 >>10274595,33 >>10274595,34 >>10274595,35 >>10274595,36 >>10274595,37 >>10274595,38 >>10274595,39 >>10274595,40 >>10274595,41
Han Chinese genetics threads and Xianbei, Manchu and Mongol genetics.
https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/9469475/#9507399_1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pei_Xingjian
Pei Xingjian (Chinese: 裴行儉), courtesy name Shouyue (Chinese: 守約) was a Han Chinese Tang dynasty general and politician. He was best known for his victory over the Khan of Western Turkic Khaganate Ashina Duzhi. He was also responsible for escorting the Sasanian Persian king-in-exile Narsieh to Persia which was occupied by Arab conquerors. He dedicated most of his life to dealing with Turkic tribes in the Anxi Protectorate.[1][2]

According to his epitaph written by Zhang Yue, Pei had 2 spouses. His first wife was a Xianbei noble from Luoyang. He married his second wife after the first died. His second wife was of Turkic ethnicity.[5] This marital status of Pei made all his children only half Chinese.

Pei had 5 sons:

Pei Zhenyin, half Xianbei and the eldest son, died before his father leaving a son, Pei Canyuan.
Pei Chixuan, one of his younger sons. Had a son named Pei Guangdi.
Pei Yanxiu, one of his younger sons.
Pei Qingyuan, one of his younger sons.
Pei Guangting, half Turk. Xingjian's youngest son. Later became Chancellor of Tang.
https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/8078561/#q8118980_13
https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/8119566/#q8128869_13
https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/8101383/#8113948
https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/9505389/#9508255
https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/10237836/#10240593 Japan whored its women to Han Chinese for centuries. https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/9505389#p9508255 https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/9190120#p9197266 https://desuarchive.org/trash/thread/34035201/#q34043055 https://desuarchive.org/trash/thread/34035288/#q34037608

963KiB, 2112x1394, romanov execution.png

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO

Anonymous Wed 27 Jan 2021 22:56:14 No.10339051 View View Reply Last 50 Original Report

Quoted By:

Did they deserve it?

197 posts and 21 images omitted

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:C3C9PeH1 Thu 22 Apr 2021 07:09:01 No.10349413,39 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>10349413,41 >>10349413,42 >>10349413,43

>>10339548 >>10349413,1 >>10349413,2 >>10349413,3 >>10349413,4 >>10349413,5 >>10349413,6 >>10349413,7 >>10349413,8 >>10349413,9 >>10349413,10 >>10349413,11 >>10349413,12 >>10349413,13 >>10349413,14 >>10349413,15 >>10349413,16 >>10349413,17 >>10349413,18 >>10349413,19 >>10349413,20 >>10349413,21 >>10349413,22 >>10349413,23 >>10349413,24 >>10349413,25 >>10349413,26 >>10349413,27 >>10349413,28 >>10349413,29 >>10349413,30 >>10349413,31 >>10349413,32 >>10349413,33 >>10349413,34 >>10349413,35 >>10349413,36 >>10349413,37
It is apparent here that Han’er, “man of Han,” means inhabitants of the Central Plains, that is, Chinese. Hanren also shows up in a discussion of Buddhism in the Weishu:
From now on, if anyone dares to serve the Hu gods by making statues of clay and bronze, they will be executed along with their entire family. Although they are said to be Hu gods, when you ask Hu people today, they say they have no such gods. This [the spread of Buddhism] all owes to those Han scoundrels of former times, Liu Yuanzhen and Lü Boqiang and their followers, who invoked the absurd sayings of those Hu beggars [i.e., Buddhists], embellished by the falsehoods of Laozi and Zhuangzi. None of it is true.40
In his study of the emergence of the ethnonym Han, Shaoyun Yang has found other evidence to suggest that Northern Wei literati were aware of this meaning of Han and that they used it in speaking about their language, that is, as Hanyu.41 Certainly this was the impression held by scholars during the Song dynasty. In Zizhi tongjian, Sima Guang refers to the wish of the Northern Wei ruler to remove the crown prince because “he is no longer like us and has taken on the qualities of the Han.” In his commentary, Hu Sanxing (1230–1302) explained to the reader, “The Xianbei called the people of the Central Country ‘Han.’”42
So it seems that the adoption of Han as a term for “the Chinese” was indeed well under way by the mid-sixth century. By virtue of these semantic shifts, Hua could also not conveniently be used by northerners to talk about Chinese in the south, so a new word, Nanren (Southerner), was introduced around this same time as a means of speaking about them.43 Southerners, on the other hand, continued to refer to themselves freely as Hua and to nomads (former nomads, really), as Yi; the term Beiren (Northerner) also emerged, but as a purely regional referent, applicable to anyone, Chinese or Särbi.44 The long life enjoyed by all these words which remained part of the Chinese political vocabulary for centuries, is testament to the fundamental divide between north and south, a divide eventually papered over by Han.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:C3C9PeH1 Thu 22 Apr 2021 07:16:18 No.10349413,40 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>10349413,41 >>10349413,42 >>10349413,43

>>10339548 >>10349413,1 >>10349413,2 >>10349413,3 >>10349413,4 >>10349413,5 >>10349413,6 >>10349413,7 >>10349413,8 >>10349413,9 >>10349413,10 >>10349413,11 >>10349413,12 >>10349413,13 >>10349413,14 >>10349413,15 >>10349413,16 >>10349413,17 >>10349413,18 >>10349413,19 >>10349413,20 >>10349413,21 >>10349413,22 >>10349413,23 >>10349413,24 >>10349413,25 >>10349413,26 >>10349413,27 >>10349413,28 >>10349413,29 >>10349413,30 >>10349413,31 >>10349413,32 >>10349413,33 >>10349413,34 >>10349413,35 >>10349413,36 >>10349413,37 >>10349413,38
The quotation from the Weishu cited above, in particular the phrase qianshi Han ren, offers a clue as to the transformation of the term Han. One possible understanding of this phrase is that it means “a Han person of a former age,” that is, a former Han subject. However, since the figure of Liu Zhenyuan mentioned in the passage is identifiable as a Buddhist monk of the late fourth century, he was clearly not alive during the Han and therefore not a former Han subject. One is therefore led to conclude that Hanren here is an ethnic, not a political, label, an attempt by the author to draw attention to the fact that while Buddhism was originally a teaching of the Hu it was propagated by non-Hu followers such as Liu, who were manifestly Hanren, that is, Chinese. One imagines that the habit of referring to the Chinese as Hanren, “people of the Han,” remained in use in at least some circles and led to the kind of shorthand we see here, where it came to refer to latter-day descendants of former Han subjects who obviously no longer owed any political allegiance to the Han but were connected in other ways (descent, language, residence, custom) with people who had lived under the Han.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:C3C9PeH1 Thu 22 Apr 2021 07:19:02 No.10349413,41 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>10349413,42 >>10349413,43

>>10339548 >>10349413,1 >>10349413,2 >>10349413,3 >>10349413,4 >>10349413,5 >>10349413,6 >>10349413,7 >>10349413,8 >>10349413,9 >>10349413,10 >>10349413,11 >>10349413,12 >>10349413,13 >>10349413,14 >>10349413,15 >>10349413,16 >>10349413,17 >>10349413,18 >>10349413,19 >>10349413,20 >>10349413,21 >>10349413,22 >>10349413,23 >>10349413,24 >>10349413,25 >>10349413,26 >>10349413,27 >>10349413,28 >>10349413,29 >>10349413,30 >>10349413,31 >>10349413,32 >>10349413,33 >>10349413,34 >>10349413,35 >>10349413,36 >>10349413,37 >>10349413,38 >>10349413,39 >>10349413,40
As we have few attestations of Hanren being used in this way before this time, it is difficult to know among which circles this habit may have been sustained. At a minimum, however, these citations make clear that distinguishing between Hu and Hua—or, from the point of view of the Northern Wei, distinguishing between Särbi and Han within the Hua ecumene—was everyday practice. It may have been the continuation of old practice: Just as Rum and Frank continued to be widely used in the Arab world to refer to regimes of Asia Minor and Europe, respectively, long after the demise of the Roman and Frankish empires, so Särbi people simply carried over the custom of referring to Central States people as Han.45 They did add a disrespectful twist, it seems, since the term Han’er is generally regarded as having carried pejorative connotations.46 And after all, ethnic groups often name each other in not very complimentary ways. The terminological evolution we observe in the north in the fifth and sixth centuries is, by this logic, a “natural” outcome of the intensified interaction between peoples who, on both sides, saw themselves as quite different from each other and were poised in distinctly unequal relationships. We can think of Hu (or the much more offensive Lu or Yi) as Chinese names for the Northern Other, while Han (or the less complimentary Han’er) was the Särbi name for the local Other in the Central Lands. We should also expect that the Särbi had another name, in the Särbi language, for the Chinese, which name corresponded to Han.47 Indeed, early on the need to communicate in the Chinese language may well have suggested the need to find a suitable corresponding term, with Han emerging as the most obvious choice.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:C3C9PeH1 Thu 22 Apr 2021 07:21:58 No.10349413,42 Report Delete

Quoted By: >>10349413,43

>>10339548 >>10349413,1 >>10349413,2 >>10349413,3 >>10349413,4 >>10349413,5 >>10349413,6 >>10349413,7 >>10349413,8 >>10349413,9 >>10349413,10 >>10349413,11 >>10349413,12 >>10349413,13 >>10349413,14 >>10349413,15 >>10349413,16 >>10349413,17 >>10349413,18 >>10349413,19 >>10349413,20 >>10349413,21 >>10349413,22 >>10349413,23 >>10349413,24 >>10349413,25 >>10349413,26 >>10349413,27 >>10349413,28 >>10349413,29 >>10349413,30 >>10349413,31 >>10349413,32 >>10349413,33 >>10349413,34 >>10349413,35 >>10349413,36 >>10349413,37 >>10349413,38 >>10349413,39 >>10349413,40 >>10349413,41
Northern dominance over the centuries, and the switch by elites to exclusive use of the Chinese language, assured the rise of the ethnonym Han. But the Northern Wei attempt to reframe the discourse of “civilization” was only partially successful, and they certainly never managed to reunify the world, a task that fell to the Sui and the Tang—not coincidentally, both states that, like the Northern Wei, had strong connections to the world beyond tianxia, that is, to the northern steppe. If one can make a judgment on the basis of the use of terms in the dynastic histories, it seems that Hanren was not very widely used in the Sui. There are only three occurrences of the word in the Suishu, all clearly associated with stories from the Han period; when the meaning was “Chinese,” it seems, Hua remained the word of choice.48 Hua continued in use in the Tang and the Five Dynasties period, but Hanren in the meaning of Chinese came to be used with increasing frequency, usually in a pairing with Fan.49 This same use continued under the Song, when Ma Yongqing, writing in the early twelfth century, could simply remark, “the Yi and Di today call the Chinese ‘Han.’” 50 Yet the situation was not so simple, and Han did not stabilize nearly so quickly. Nor was it universally applied. As in earlier periods, it was at least as common to refer to people as Tangren (men of the Tang) or Songren (men of the Song) as it was to refer to them as Hanren; but when Hanren was used, it did not mean “men of the Han.” It meant “Chinese.” The tendency seems to have been to turn to this word when the subject at hand required drawing attention to ethnic or “national” distinctions that otherwise remained unsaid, whether because they were unimportant or because they were obvious.51 But beginning in the tenth century, Han took on new meanings that considerably exceeded those it had acquired up to that time. To some degree, one can characterize this as the unfolding of a bifurcated discourse, whereby on the one hand administrative exigencies prompted the assignation of the label upon new groups, usually politically defined, while on the other hand the memory of the earlier meaning of Han for “the Chinese” persisted, especially in popular usage.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:C3C9PeH1 Thu 22 Apr 2021 08:04:19 No.10349413,43 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>10339548 >>10349413,1 >>10349413,2 >>10349413,3 >>10349413,4 >>10349413,5 >>10349413,6 >>10349413,7 >>10349413,8 >>10349413,9 >>10349413,10 >>10349413,11 >>10349413,12 >>10349413,13 >>10349413,14 >>10349413,15 >>10349413,16 >>10349413,17 >>10349413,18 >>10349413,19 >>10349413,20 >>10349413,21 >>10349413,22 >>10349413,23 >>10349413,24 >>10349413,25 >>10349413,26 >>10349413,27 >>10349413,28 >>10349413,29 >>10349413,30 >>10349413,31 >>10349413,32 >>10349413,33 >>10349413,34 >>10349413,35 >>10349413,36 >>10349413,37 >>10349413,38 >>10349413,39 >>10349413,40 >>10349413,41 >>10349413,42
Han Chinese genetics threads and Xianbei, Manchu and Mongol genetics.
https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/9469475/#9507399_1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pei_Xingjian
Pei Xingjian (Chinese: 裴行儉), courtesy name Shouyue (Chinese: 守約) was a Han Chinese Tang dynasty general and politician. He was best known for his victory over the Khan of Western Turkic Khaganate Ashina Duzhi. He was also responsible for escorting the Sasanian Persian king-in-exile Narsieh to Persia which was occupied by Arab conquerors. He dedicated most of his life to dealing with Turkic tribes in the Anxi Protectorate.[1][2]

According to his epitaph written by Zhang Yue, Pei had 2 spouses. His first wife was a Xianbei noble from Luoyang. He married his second wife after the first died. His second wife was of Turkic ethnicity.[5] This marital status of Pei made all his children only half Chinese.

Pei had 5 sons:

Pei Zhenyin, half Xianbei and the eldest son, died before his father leaving a son, Pei Canyuan.
Pei Chixuan, one of his younger sons. Had a son named Pei Guangdi.
Pei Yanxiu, one of his younger sons.
Pei Qingyuan, one of his younger sons.
Pei Guangting, half Turk. Xingjian's youngest son. Later became Chancellor of Tang.
https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/8078561/#q8118980_13
https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/8119566/#q8128869_13
https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/8101383/#8113948
https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/9505389/#9508255
https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/10237836/#10240593 Japan whored its women to Han Chinese for centuries. https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/9505389#p9508255 https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/9190120#p9197266 https://desuarchive.org/trash/thread/34035201/#q34043055 https://desuarchive.org/trash/thread/34035288/#q34037608

437KiB, 753x1024, Francisco_Franco.jpg

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO

Anonymous Thu 04 Mar 2021 14:26:53 No.10579149 View View Reply Last 50 Original Report

Quoted By: >>10583329 >>10583345 >>10583591,1

It is morally justified to kill communists, as they, by their very nature, favour and seek violent upheaval of soviety which will kill innocents.

93 posts and 11 images omitted

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 05 Mar 2021 00:08:46 No.10583329 Report

Quoted By:

>>10579149
yes, but that doesn't mean franco was in the right

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 05 Mar 2021 00:10:39 No.10583345 Report

Quoted By:

>>10579149
I mean, communists are always justifed, as they by their very nature, anti-communits favour and seek violent suppresion that will kill innocents

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 05 Mar 2021 00:13:43 No.10583361 Report

Quoted By:

>>10580198
>gets distracted by Salazar so he doesn't join the germans and invade

Anonymous

Anonymous Fri 05 Mar 2021 00:48:14 No.10583591 Report

Quoted By:

>>10580665
>we
You'll do fucking nothing faggot.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:rpeWi7xU Mon 19 Apr 2021 22:15:53 No.10583591,1 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>10579149
Absolutely. Just see Tankies

58KiB, 976x850, _91408619_55df76d5-2245-41c1-8031-07a4da3f313f (2).jpg

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO

Racists are the dumbest people

Anonymous Sat 17 Apr 2021 00:15:24 No.10908239 View View Reply Last 50 Original Report

Quoted By: >>10909682

85 posts and 14 images omitted

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 44e.jpg, 48KiB, 600x600

Anonymous Sat 17 Apr 2021 05:03:15 No.10909682 Report

Quoted By: >>10909691 >>10909696

>>10908239
>Mods will leave this /trash/ tier thread up but shoah some Wehraboo thread in which history is actually being discussed.
Hell, it was probably made by a mod...remember when people branded this site "counter culture" ? Times sure do change.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 17 Apr 2021 05:06:31 No.10909691 Report

Quoted By:

>>10909682
They usually delete shitposting threads around 150 replies if there's a lot of traffic. This thread's dead

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 17 Apr 2021 05:08:19 No.10909696 Report

Quoted By: >>10909730

>>10909682
Being anti-wehraboo is counter-culture by 4chan standards

Anonymous

Anonymous Sat 17 Apr 2021 05:15:29 No.10909730 Report

Quoted By:

>>10909696
this.

Anonymous

Anonymous ID:Adb3T/5P Sat 17 Apr 2021 11:49:56 No.10909730,1 Report Delete

Quoted By:

>>10908982
t. Inbred muzzie

Capcode	All Only User Posts Only Verified Posts Only Moderator Posts Only Manager Posts Only Admin Posts Only Developer Posts Only Founder Posts
Show Posts	All Only With Images Only Without Images Only Spoiler Images Only Non-Spoiler Images
Deleted Posts	All Only Deleted Posts Only Non-Deleted Posts
Ghost Posts	All Only Ghost Posts Only Non-Ghost Posts
Post Type	All Only Sticky Threads Only Opening Posts Only Reply Posts
Results	All Grouped By Threads
Order	Latest Posts First Oldest Posts First

Threads by latest ghost replies - Page 48

On these archives

On these boards

Your latest searches

China is the greatest country in all of history

Racists are the dumbest people